Calgary Fertility Clinic racial policy

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

That's a backtrack if I have ever seen one. The federal government called the policy discriminatory.

What's a backtrack?
That they changed the policy over a year ago?

[photon]

I think he's insinuating that they actually just changed it now but are saying they did it over a year ago just to try and save a little face.

We'll never know either way.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by photon

I think he's insinuating that they actually just changed it now but are saying they did it over a year ago just to try and save a little face.

We'll never know either way.

I do get that part. A friend worked at a place that (of course) said it did not discriminate based on gender - however they had never hired a woman to work the floor in the history of it's operation. That has changed now, but they always claimed it was policy.

I just can't see how this is that, at all. They specifically say they 'have treated numerous patients who requested donors of different ethnicity' since that policy change a year ago.
I absolutely can not see them making this kind of statement if it was not accurate. An individual doctor policy/opinion does not necessary reflect that of the organization.

[photon]

I doubt they'd make that statement if it was not accurate as well, though really there's no way to check, privacy and all that.

[driveway]

I am very glad to see that the policy has been changed, whenever the change happened.

It was really disheartening to read all of the support in this thread for the original policy. The fundamental view seems to be that a person's ethnicity is so important that it is correct for a fertility clinic to have any kind of policy regulating how they treat donors and patients of different ethnicities.

This speaks to a broader view in society that ethnicity is somehow definitive, or declarative of a person's nature, which is pretty much the foundation of racism.

Really glad the policy is changed.

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by photon

I doubt they'd make that statement if it was not accurate as well, though really there's no way to check, privacy and all that.

The administrative director of the clinic makes a statement last week saying that the ban has been in place for 28 years, and makes additional statements to indictate continuing support for the ban.
Media furour happens and the clinic says no, no the ban has been lifted for a year, we forgot to update the website, that doesn't sound like a cover up?

[troutman]

How do even define ethnicity?

Genetic research shows that "races" are not "pure and static groups that are significantly different from one another. Genetics has proven otherwise by tracing human ancestry, as it is inscribed on DNA".

http://web.mit.edu/racescience/in_me...s_about_human/

Not only is race or ethnicity a poor predictor of most genetic traits, it is very hard to define. Many people think they can easily tell an Asian from a European, but, says Paabo, ''If we start walking east from Europe, when do we start saying people are Asian? Or if we walk up the Nile Valley, when do we say people are African? There are no sharp distinctions.''

[The Ditch]

A lot of these things can be alleviated by adopting a child that's real and tangible instead of spending thousands and thousands of dollars to genetically try to make a person, just my opinion.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

I have a question: How does (or I guess did) affect lesbian couples? If both are white, were they only matching them a white donor as well? Or did only mixed couples get access to other options (depending on who was the child bearer)? I'm scratching my head over this one.

[tete]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

I have a question: How does (or I guess did) affect lesbian couples? If both are white, were they only matching them a white donor as well? Or did only mixed couples get access to other options (depending on who was the child bearer)? I'm scratching my head over this one.

Yes, in the past, two caucasian lesbian women would only be matched up with caucasian sperm donors - a friend of mine and her partner went through the clinic two years ago to have their daughter and this was the policy at the time - she found it very perplexing.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by troutman

How do even define ethnicity?

Genetic research shows that "races" are not "pure and static groups that are significantly different from one another. Genetics has proven otherwise by tracing human ancestry, as it is inscribed on DNA".

http://web.mit.edu/racescience/in_me...s_about_human/

Not only is race or ethnicity a poor predictor of most genetic traits, it is very hard to define. Many people think they can easily tell an Asian from a European, but, says Paabo, ''If we start walking east from Europe, when do we start saying people are Asian? Or if we walk up the Nile Valley, when do we say people are African? There are no sharp distinctions.''

I guess it would be defined on however a questionnaire/application is filled out. Caucasian, African, Asian, etc. You are right of course, it's much more of a moving target than that, but a lot of forms have boxes you check that people don't even give a second thought to.

But I would suspect it would all hinge on paperwork the person filed and how they view themselves, rather than any DNA indicators.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

A lot of these things can be alleviated by adopting a child that's real and tangible instead of spending thousands and thousands of dollars to genetically try to make a person, just my opinion.

I don't disagree, but adoption agency fees are also thousands of dollars, and the wait lists are very long.

[Ryan Coke]

So the counter is should couples be allowed to choose the gender of their child, lest it be considered sexual discrimination to not allow it?

As it stands you can't do gender selection in Canada due to potential abuse.

[TheGrimm]

We're all "blended" at some point in the past. I'm part NEANDERTHAL and proud of it! I'm okay with abolishing the policy as peoples reasons should be there own and the culture should be "Canadian" going forward which embraces multiple cultures.

That said, I'd also be putting this couple so far back on a "wait" list. If you are not infertile you are just taking the place in line for a couple that is having legitimate troubles conceiving and they should be denied on that basis alone.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by tete

Yes, in the past, two caucasian lesbian women would only be matched up with caucasian sperm donors - a friend of mine and her partner went through the clinic two years ago to have their daughter and this was the policy at the time - she found it very perplexing.

So what about mixed lesbian couples? Say you have a black and white couple. Is the white girl allowed to pick a black donor, or vice versa?

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by TheGrimm

We're all "blended" at some point in the past. I'm part NEANDERTHAL and proud of it!

I realize this is a joke, but just so we're clear (and which you're probably aware) neanderthals and the modern human are both different species.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

I realize this is a joke, but just so we're clear (and which you're probably aware) neanderthals and the modern human are both different species.

Actually there are new studies that suggest there was some blending of the two species somewhere along the way. Interestingly enough, a lot of scientists in China are behind this push. I forget the reason why.

Yeah I get that generally two species can't breed with each other, but I think there are exceptions.

[troutman]

Scientists Identify Neanderthal Genes in Modern Human DNA

http://www.sci-news.com/otherscience...dna-01734.html

In two new studies, genetic researchers have shown that about 20 percent of the Neanderthal genome survives in modern humans of non-African ancestry and identified exactly which areas of the human genome retain segments of Neanderthal DNA.

About 30,000 years ago, Homo sapiens migrating out of Africa began encountering Neanderthals, a lineage that had diverged from modern humans hundreds of thousands of years before. Despite their differences, Homo sapiens and Neanderthals mingled, and over time, produced children with genes from both lineages.

[TheGrimm]

Yup, there was an excellent documentary on NOVA about it...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evoluti...nderthals.html

Didn't mean to detract from the thread with my joke in passing, just put it in there to illustrate the fact that there is no such thing as a "pure bred", and if there were it'd be at a direct disadvantage to survival.

[GP_Matt]

To be truely non-racial, shouldn't the policy be that we don't disclose the gender of the donor?

It seems weird that a person can come in and ask to try a Chinese/Spanish combo the first time, maybe a Portuguese\British with just a hint of West African for their second child.

I am not against racial mixing, but the idea of customizing a baby based on race seems a bit off the wall to me.