Once again Israel shows it doesn't screw around

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think you and blaster have misread the comment chain.

Generally those critical or Israeli occupation policy have to fall all over themselves to legitimize the grievances of Israel, as ffphd did in his post.

The opposite is scarcely the case, and when supplied with an opportunity to legitimize any grievance of the Palestinian cause, blankall felt attacked and needed to defend the state by telling us how good things were because they set up field hospitals for the civilians they've killed and injured.

Undercover brother pointed it out already, grievances of Israeli policy can't be legitimized unless you provide euqual airtime to all the good they do (which is a load of patronizing hooey).

The critics of Israeli policy in this thread routinely acknowledge the issues Israel has with Palestinian resistance/independence movement, but the supporters of Israel are generally as seen in blqnkalls post, unable to legitimize anything regarding the state of the occupied territories.

It is an absurdity that underlies the morally and mentally tenuous justification for this continued occupation.

Can't let anything slip through the cracks, gotta be a stone wall, can't show any weakness. Can't entertain the idea that thinks are not resolutely and resoundingly just; that the Palestinian people brought this upon themselves and Israel is an unfortunate bystander in all of this, beyond reproach, having never made a miss step.

It is really, really sad to see the lengths people will go to absolve abhorrent behaviour.

Again though, in this exact post you are claiming the same thing. Put Palestinians in for Israelis and call it a Blankall post and is the same.

Point to Israel's disgusting casual attitude and all you get is "what are you supposed to do? Israel is a democratic state and Hamas are terrorists.
Point to Hamas' terrorist actions and their casual attitude towards their own people lives and all you get it is "what else can they do? Israel has been continually dressing this people and selling on their land despite promises not to"

That's the nature of this entire conflict. Two monstrous organizations putting the value of Palestinian lives below that of cockroaches. One side ensuring the casualties to grow their power and the other dismissing their lives as simple collateral damage. Both sides in this debate claiming the other started it. Who gives a #### who started it? How does the death of a single two year old child pay for either side of this conflict?

Your arguing that those claiming the Palestinian people have a legitimate grievance, but those on the side of Israel do not accept it, as an answer to a post about how Israel had a legitimate grievance. Don't you see the hypocrisy there?

[CaptainYooh]

To me, all arguments and accusations against Israel break and stop right here, at Hamas Manifesto:

the Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!...

This sentiment is shared by most of the Arab world, regardless of their open or quiet support of Hamas. Palestinians in Gaza have elected Hamas as their government and therefore, they are supportive of its objectives and it is legitimate to assume that they are one and the same. Nowhere in Israel's policies or objectives it states that its goal is destruction of the Muslims or Arabs. Opposite, Israel is OPENLY calling for finding a peace solution. By supporting Hamas, Palestinian people are telling the world: "We do not want the peace solution." More than a million of Arab citizens living in Israel and enjoying full governmental support of their citizen rights is a proof of Israel's democratic intentions. With a couple of very insignificant exceptions, no Jews are living in the Arab countries, because they have been expulsed. I have already mentioned the ignorant and dismissive attitude of anti-Israel sentiment earlier, not gonna repeat it. Mass murders in Syria and Egypt are not worthy of any meaningful condemnation, while very sad, but explainable (and expectaed) war casualties in much smaller numbers are being elevated and highlighted.

To Zevo, blankall, Nage_Waza, T@T and others trying to argue with _Q_, Arya_Stark and a few more here – you are wasting your time. It's better just to stop and ignore these guys. They are not hearing your arguments not because they can't read, but because they don't want to. This is my last post in this thread.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think you and blaster have misread the comment chain.

Generally those critical or Israeli occupation policy have to fall all over themselves to legitimize the grievances of Israel, as ffphd did in his post.

The opposite is scarcely the case, and when supplied with an opportunity to legitimize any grievance of the Palestinian cause, blankall felt attacked and needed to defend the state by telling us how good things were because they set up field hospitals for the civilians they've killed and injured.

Undercover brother pointed it out already, grievances of Israeli policy can't be legitimized unless you provide euqual airtime to all the good they do (which is a load of patronizing hooey).

The critics of Israeli policy in this thread routinely acknowledge the issues Israel has with Palestinian resistance/independence movement, but the supporters of Israel are generally as seen in blqnkalls post, unable to legitimize anything regarding the state of the occupied territories.

It is an absurdity that underlies the morally and mentally tenuous justification for this continued occupation.

Can't let anything slip through the cracks, gotta be a stone wall, can't show any weakness. Can't entertain the idea that thinks are not resolutely and resoundingly just; that the Palestinian people brought this upon themselves and Israel is an unfortunate bystander in all of this, beyond reproach, having never made a miss step.

It is really, really sad to see the lengths people will go to absolve abhorrent behaviour.

Okay...I've never denied that Palestinians are suffering or have grievances. The idea that Israel is purposely targeting civilians and committing genocide is BS though. My point really is with all the genuine suffering, why do posters feel the need to go over the top with their rhetoric about Israel.

The fact you accuse me of rhetoric for mentioning a field hospital is baffling. That's not rhetoric, that's statement of a fact. Israel is spending millions of dollars on the health care of wounded Palestinians. They are treating them in their own hospitals and have set up temporary hospitals within Gaza.

I also don't get where these accusations that I am "internalizing" the conflict are coming from. From what I can tell, my posts seem to be quite logical, as opposed to emotional. Sorry I'm bringing up facts that don't fit into your wild accusations.

I'm really not sure what your point is...unless I admit that Israel is committing genocide (which is nowhere close to the truth), I'm not acknowledging the suffering of the Palestinians?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think you and blaster have misread the comment chain.

Generally those critical or Israeli occupation policy have to fall all over themselves to legitimize the grievances of Israel, as ffphd did in his post.

The opposite is scarcely the case, and when supplied with an opportunity to legitimize any grievance of the Palestinian cause, blankall felt attacked and needed to defend the state by telling us how good things were because they set up field hospitals for the civilians they've killed and injured.

I don't think that was his point at all. I think he was talking about those field hospitals as a counter-point to the idea of genocide and intentionally killing civilians. Unless they're dolling out cyanide pills as a pain-killer at these hospitals they are sort of the opposite thing to a genocidal act. Not how great things are for the Palestinians. No one would be so stupid as to make that argument, but people who have taken an anti-Israel stance (for lack of a better term) immediately jump on any point of how Israel is trying to limit damage as a pro-Israel stance to justify everything and say how safe it is for the Palestinians. And I think this is the huge impasse in this debate. Not that we have a disagreement, but that we seem unable to argue this without either side jumping to conclusions and extrapolating on every comment in regards to what the other side means. It's an argument in hyperbole.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Undercover brother pointed it out already, grievances of Israeli policy can't be legitimized unless you provide euqual airtime to all the good they do (which is a load of patronizing hooey).

If they do have a good aspect, why wouldn't you give in attention? Out of pure curiosity, why would you ignore the good?

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The critics of Israeli policy in this thread routinely acknowledge the issues Israel has with Palestinian resistance/independence movement, but the supporters of Israel are generally as seen in blqnkalls post, unable to legitimize anything regarding the state of the occupied territories.

I disagree. I've seen very little from the the Israel critics that gives anything back in regards to what they have to do on a daily basis to stay safe. I see it trivialized and regarded as "nothing in comparison to what the Palestinians go through." Which I think is a ridiculous stand point. No one deserves to have to be on alert all day every day that a rocket could come streaming in. Neither Palestinian nor Israeli.

[boosterjuice]

Originally Posted by blankall

Okay...I've never denied that Palestinians are suffering or have grievances. The idea that Israel is purposely targeting civilians and committing genocide is BS though. My point really is with all the genuine suffering, why do posters feel the need to go over the top with their rhetoric about Israel.

The fact you accuse me of rhetoric for mentioning a field hospital is baffling. That's not rhetoric, that's statement of a fact. Israel is spending millions of dollars on the health care of wounded Palestinians. They are treating them in their own hospitals and have set up temporary hospitals within Gaza.

I also don't get where these accusations that I am "internalizing" the conflict are coming from. From what I can tell, my posts seem to be quite logical, as opposed to emotional. Sorry I'm bringing up facts that don't fit into your wild accusations.

I'm really not sure what your point is...unless I admit that Israel is committing genocide (which is nowhere close to the truth), I'm not acknowledging the suffering of the Palestinians?

This conflict is very black and white. Once Hamas stops firing rockets, Israel will cease their ground incursion. We all sympathize with the civilian casualties but Hamas is responsible for this, not Isreal.

This conflict would be the equivalent of Harper having our armed forces firing rockets at the US and complaining about civilian casualties when the US fires back.

[Brannigans Law]

I hate to even get involved but I've read a number of posters claim that if only the rockets would stop, Israel wouldn't retaliate. This may be 100% true but why isn't anyone on the pro Israel side talking about why the rocket attacks occur? Just sayin'.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Brannigans Law

I hate to even get involved but I've read a number of posters claim that if only the rockets would stop, Israel wouldn't retaliate. This may be 100% true but why isn't anyone on the pro Israel side talking about why the rocket attacks occur? Just sayin'.

Because the reasons for the rocket attacks aren't sexy. Who cares about settlement building, blockades,and other things which cause far more grief than these rockets. And if the rockets stop, nothing will change. We have proof of this, there are no rockets being fired form the West bank yet israel builds illegal settlements there. Israel will either bomb or build, Hamas or no hamas rockets or no rockets.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by boosterjuice

This conflict is very black and white.

This is easily the most inaccurate statement in the entire history of this thread, no matter which side you're on.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Brannigans Law

I hate to even get involved but I've read a number of posters claim that if only the rockets would stop, Israel wouldn't retaliate. This may be 100% true but why isn't anyone on the pro Israel side talking about why the rocket attacks occur? Just sayin'.

If Israel isn't in Gaza or firing rockets, what legitimate reason do you see for Hamas to target Israeli civilians?

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Because the reasons for the rocket attacks aren't sexy. Who cares about settlement building, blockades,and other things which cause far more grief than these rockets. And if the rockets stop, nothing will change. We have proof of this, there are no rockets being fired form the West bank yet israel builds illegal settlements there. Israel will either bomb or build, Hamas or no hamas rockets or no rockets.

Do you think Hamas would stop if Israel stopped building? So far, all Hamas has shown when Israel shows restraint is that they will re-arm and build tunnels for the sole purpose of killing Israelis.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

This is easily the most inaccurate statement in the entire history of this thread, no matter which side you're on.

I think he means this current event not the problem between Israel and the Palestinians as a whole.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Do you think Hamas would stop if Israel stopped building? So far, all Hamas has shown when Israel shows restraint is that they will re-arm and build tunnels for the sole purpose of killing Israels

This has already been proven inaccurate, why maintain the myth?

Why do posters like yourself, Nage, and blankall continue to make false claims that have been proven wrong by reputable sources?

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

This has already been proven inaccurate, why maintain the myth?

Why do posters like yourself, Nage, and blankall continue to make false claims that have been proven wrong by reputable sources?

What?? I must have missed it, can you provide the source again please or the post that has the link.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Zevo

What?? I must have missed it, can you provide the source again please or the post that has the link.

Of course:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...-palestinians/

Until recently, though, the tunnels extended only into Egypt and were used mainly to smuggle in consumer goods. Because of the Israeli blockade of Gaza, introduced when Hamas won elections in 2007 and relaxed only recently, many items—foodstuffs, gas, clothing, cars—were unavailable through normal trade.

If you genuinely hadn't read the link, then I apologise, but there it is for a bit of reference on the history of those tunnels and what their actual purpose was.

[Zevo]

So this is all made up?

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/network-...-war-1.1931417

http://news.yahoo.com/hamas-tunnel-threat-center-war- israel-072313237.html?soc_src=copy

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

Of course:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...-palestinians/



If you genuinely hadn't read the link, then I apologise, but there it is for a bit of reference on the history of those tunnels and what their actual purpose was.

You're link also said this

In a public statement released as the incursion began, Hamas said that the new tunnels—some of which apparently extend hundreds of yards into Israeli territory—are just one of the "surprises" it has in store for Israelis.

The tunnels represent "a new strategy in confronting the occupation and in the conflict with the enemy from underground and from above the ground," former Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniya has said.

There are connections between the Egyptian and Israeli tunnel networks. It's believed Hamas used the Egyptian tunnels to smuggle firearms and rockets—weapons that are now being used against the Israelis—into Gaza.

so I don't understand how what I said is a myth. You're own link proves it.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Do you think Hamas would stop if Israel stopped building? So far, all Hamas has shown when Israel shows restraint is that they will re-arm and build tunnels for the sole purpose of killing Israelis.

Yes, they made a unity agreement with Fatah in April and the rockets stopped.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Zevo

You're link also said this



so I don't understand how what I said is a myth. You're own link proves it.

When Israel was less involved (still with blockades) the tunnels were built for the purposes of importing and exporting.

The tunnel system was never meant to be an attack on Israel, it was simply adapted for that once their importing and exporting abilities were cut off.

There is zero precedent to suggest that if Israel stopped being a suppressive factor, that Hamas would build tunnels for the purpose of attacking Israelis. It hasn't happened yet, so what makes you think it would happen in the future? That would completely ignore Israel's role in the current purpose of the tunnels.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Yes, they made a unity agreement with Fatah in April and the rockets stopped.

Fair enough, they've stopped for short periods of time. I mean long term though. With Hamas' mandate, do you think if Israel were to stop building, soften the border between Gaza and Israel, and lifted blockades, would Israelis be safe? Assuming the Palestinians keep status quo and keep Hamas in power and they are able to operate within Gaza freely.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

When Israel was less involved (still with blockades) the tunnels were built for the purposes of importing and exporting.

The tunnel system was never meant to be an attack on Israel, it was simply adapted for that once their importing and exporting abilities were cut off.

There is zero precedent to suggest that if Israel stopped being a suppressive factor, that Hamas would build tunnels for the purpose of attacking Israelis. It hasn't happened yet, so what makes you think it would happen in the future? That would completely ignore Israel's role in the current purpose of the tunnels.

Those are the tunnels into Egypt, I'm talking about the new tunnels into Israel, the ones also mentioned in your link. Are they still a myth?