Once again Israel shows it doesn't screw around

[hah]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Go back a couple of steps. Israel has killed 750 people because three teens were kidnapped and killed. Israel felt the right to go and arrest and displace 2000 people for that crime and then to start a war against an organization for which there's very good evidence to support had nothing to do with the crime.

Lets be clear as to why Hamas is launching rockets, it was because of a massive escalation of Israeli violence.

Hamas is a terrorist organization whose main goal is to wipe out Jews. They use civilians as human shields, they store rockets in hospitals and schools, they fire rockets into Israel.

Where are Hamas brothers in this escalation? Why is the rest of the Arab world not stepping up to help them?

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by blankall

The local police arrested the Israeli murderers (2 out of 3 were children themselves) and charged them with murder and hate crimes.

The Palestinians government funded and hid the murderers of the Israeli teens. When Hamas and the Palestinian authority start arresting their own murderers Israel won't need to remove the economic incentive to murder.

There's been two entirely distinct reactions to murder. The Israeli reaction was not the incorrect one.

Did they bulldoze their family's houses pre-trial? Or is that treatment only for the caged animals? There is no justice system, they just roll in and knock down whoever they suspect is involved.

Originally Posted by blankall

According to you Israel has no recourse to stop Hamas from getting weapons?

Also you realize that Egypt maintains the exact same blockade. Hamas is dangerous. End of story. They aren't some minor terrorist organization either. They are the elected government of the Palestinians.

Treating the symptoms and not the disease doesn't work. How many times do we have to go round and round on this? No one is saying Hamas is good or just. They are merely a symptom of 70 years of theft and heavy handed justice meted out by Israel.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by blankall

The local police arrested the Israeli murderers (2 out of 3 were children themselves) and charged them with murder and hate crimes.



The Palestinians government funded and hid the murderers of the Israeli teens. When Hamas and the Palestinian authority start arresting their own murderers Israel won't need to remove the economic incentive to murder.



There's been two entirely distinct reactions to murder. The Israeli reaction was not the incorrect one.

Do you have a reputable link to that?

Regardless, Israel's reaction to the murders of the three teens was not in proportion to the act committed. In that case, their reaction certainly WAS the "incorrect one."

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

Do you have a reputable link to that?

I've asked Blankall for links 2 times now after he made some outrageous claims and he ignored them both so I wouldn't expect him to give you an answer to this.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Pretty tough to look at, but important to see:

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-07-24/i...ttack-in-gaza/

[_Q_]

Absolutely shocking and disgusting.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

They are merely a symptom of 70 years of theft and heavy handed justice meted out by Israel.

No. They are a symptom of Israel existing. If you think that Hamas wouldn't exist if Israel suddenly backed out and said "We ####ed up, sorry guys. We got carried away and what we've done is horrible. Please forgive us," you're just not realizing what gave rise to Hamas and to the forefathers of Hamas that were there in 1947. It's not that they feel persecuted. It's that they feel that the very existence of a Jewish state is wrong. It is a heresy of the Jews to think they can have a place there. It cannot exist.

That belief is why Israel has such a heavy hand with the territories they captured when they were attacked. There are people in these territories that want to see them wiped out. Not because they took that land, but because they had their own land to begin with. Until we solve that problem, Israel will keep going overboard to protect themselves. And that is the issue. How does Israel defend it self, while the Palestinians don't suffer. Just giving the land back is a step, but it doesn't solve the biggest issue here. And without a guarantee of solving the issue, why would Israel capitulate at all?

[WCW Nitro]

Hitting the UN school is nothing more than a message the day after after the UN Human Rights Council wanted to open up an investigation into possible israeli war crimes. In every conflict Israel has always hit some symbol of the UN after some statements were made against it. No surprise here.

[_Q_]

And Israel's existence is based on the idea that everything between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean belongs to the Jewish people. The idea that Arabs live in what they call Judea and Samaria is appalling. Like I said before, one group has the power to carry out their dream (see the settlement building, house demolitions and mistreatment of Palestinians) and the other doesn't.

So where does all this get us?

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by _Q_

And Israel's existence is based on the idea that everything between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean belongs to the Jewish people. The idea that Arabs live in what they call Judea and Samaria is appalling. Like I said before, one group has the power to carry out their dream (see the settlement building, house demolitions and mistreatment of Palestinians) and the other doesn't.

So where does all this get us?

Don't forget they have political parties that strive for exactly that goal. The Palestinians don't have the market cornered on extremist ideology.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by _Q_

And Israel's existence is based on the idea that everything between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean belongs to the Jewish people. The idea that Arabs live in what they call Judea and Samaria is appalling. Like I said before, one group has the power to carry out their dream (see the settlement building, house demolitions and mistreatment of Palestinians) and the other doesn't.

So where does all this get us?

And that's where the issue is. Israel is not doing themselves any favours. The settlements are impossible to defend. They can't go up any more. Just as Hamas cannot be allowed to do what they do, this cannot happen from the Israeli side of things.

And just as with Hamas having no answer until the Palestinian people say no more, it is on the Israeli people who are moderate and not hardline to stand up and say "No." to the people that do this.

[_Q_]

Maybe this is a bit off topic, but I think the final solution to the settlements isn't to dismantle all of them.

What I envision is Israel taking control of the largest settlements that don't break up the continuity of a Palestinian state in exchange for Arab towns close to the West Bank border . All other residents are given three options. 1) Move to Israel and accept compensation for your lost property. 2) remain in your home and accept Palestinian citizenship while renouncing your Israeli citizenship. 3) remain in your home, remain an Israeli citizen but with permanent resident status. For the last two options, all that are remaining in Palestine must accept the fact that they will be under Palestinian laws and are no longer in Israel.

[SebC]

National Post has in interesting survey of Gazans.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07...re-poll-finds/

28% of Gazans are against a ceasefire (compared to 44% in the West Bank).

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Pretty tough to look at, but important to see:

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-07-24/i...ttack-in-gaza/

Can't believe I watched that. Truly sickening. Truly disgusting. Israel looks to have sent a strong message to the U.N. Don't mess with us or we will bomb you and your shelters with me remorse for life.

I don't care if Osama Bin Laden was in that building, you don't just bomb a U.N shelter where there are kids and women.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by SebC

National Post has in interesting survey of Gazans.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07...re-poll-finds/

28% of Gazans are against a ceasefire (compared to 44% in the West Bank).

So most do want to live in peace. Thanks for that.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Maybe this is a bit off topic, but I think the final solution to the settlements isn't to dismantle all of them.

What I envision is Israel taking control of the largest settlements that don't break up the continuity of a Palestinian state in exchange for Arab towns close to the West Bank border . All other residents are given three options. 1) Move to Israel and accept compensation for your lost property. 2) remain in your home and accept Palestinian citizenship while renouncing your Israeli citizenship. 3) remain in your home, remain an Israeli citizen but with permanent resident status. For the last two options, all that are remaining in Palestine must accept the fact that they will be under Palestinian laws and are no longer in Israel.

Do you trust a Palestinian state to respect the rights of religious minorities within their borders?

Also, do you think that Arab towns in Israel would want to automatically be annexed by a Palestinian state?

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Do you trust a Palestinian state to respect the rights of religious minorities within their borders?

Also, do you think that Arab towns in Israel would want to automatically be annexed by a Palestinian state?

They did before 1948, I don't see why they can't now.

It's not like Israel has a great track record of respecting religious minorities....you know in a country founded by Jews and made for Jews all because their bible told them to make a Jewish state. But it's a democracy..

Ask the black people how they feel about not being Jewish in Israel or even the Ethiopian Jews how they feel being black in Israel. The laws say one thing and they treat them totally inferior.

Both sides struggle or would struggle treating religious minorities fairly. Don't try and paint one side with a bad brush when the reality is Israel treats religious minorities unjust and very poorly.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Do you trust a Palestinian state to respect the rights of religious minorities within their borders?

Also, do you think that Arab towns in Israel would want to automatically be annexed by a Palestinian state?

They seem to treat the Christians and Samaritans fine there.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

They did before 1948, I don't see why they can't now.

It's not like Israel has a great track record of respecting religious minorities....you know in a country founded by Jews and made for Jews all because their bible told them to make a Jewish state. But it's a democracy..

Ask the black people how they feel about not being Jewish in Israel or even the Ethiopian Jews how they feel being black in Israel. The laws say one thing and they treat them totally inferior.

Both sides struggle or would struggle treating religious minorities fairly. Don't try and paint one side with a bad brush when the reality is Israel treats religious minorities unjust and very poorly.

There was a Palestinian state before 1948 (beside Jordan I mean)?

I wasn't trying to paint anything in any way. I just want to know if a Palestinian state, with like a powerful Hamas faction involved in their political structure (which it likely would be), could be trusted to respect Jewish rights in a Palestinian state.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There was a Palestinian state before 1948 (beside Jordan I mean)?

I wasn't trying to paint anything in any way. I just want to know if a Palestinian state, with like a powerful Hamas faction involved in their political structure (which it likely would be), could be trusted to respect Jewish rights in a Palestinian state.

There has never been a Palestinian state. The whole area has a ridiculously complex history with various tribes and peoples (not even to mention the whole #####e/Sunni divide) having control, losing control, and being forced out of their lands. Its hard to say who has the "right" to what land when you consider everyone has been taking lands from others for so long. (Not a statement in support of either side, just trying to clear up misinformation).