But I think you are completely wrong. First and foremost, this is an opportunity for someone to say "My work was chosen as the best" for the next 40 + years. That is a selling point for future work on other projects. Never hurts to be able to claim a feather in the cap like having almost every vehicle display your work.
And what if you don't win. Well c'est la vie. You can still display your concept in your own shop/building etc if you like. Consider it research and development. Sometimes efforts like that don't pay off. It is a cost of business. Get used to it.
In my business, many request for proposal are very time consuming, with the vast majority of the "work" for the project being conceptualized in order to even submit a bid. If I am not the winner of the bid, I have still done work for free.
One of the worst problems today is that big governments and big businesses are in bed with each other but it is actually a three-way and we are the ones being screwed. The taxi cab industry is a great example. Choice is artificially limited and we likely are not getting the best option, nor the best value. This is an opportunity for everyone to compete on an even playing field if they choose.
I see nothing wrong with that. Heck, I encourage it.
I wouldn't argue for a second that there's isn't a cost of doing business, be it consulting, proposals RFP's etc. What I would argue is that no entity (be it government, business, etc) should be getting 4-5+ final options for the cost of one.
I guess it's the difference between having a bakery offer a tasting of their cake weeks before the wedding, VS having 5 bakeries show up with the day of the wedding with completed cakes and only paying for one.
No one would argue that doing sample tastings a variety of bakeries is in poor taste, most would agree the second scenario is most unreasonable.
I don't disagree jaydorn. Like I said, her reasons for choosing not to participate are valid. But any individual's choice not to participate in a contest is (1) not news, and (2) does not show a lack of ethics on the part of the person holding the contest. There are innumerable such contests held for a variety of reasons. i.e.: X92.9's exposure CD cover art contest.
The article is basically an attempted smear peace using this particular graphic artist as its launching pad. Except that instead of making Wildrose look bad as intended, it makes Amanda look bad, and her profession by extension.
I guess we just don't share the same view, in my opinion design contest are unethical. But I have a vested (and very biased) interest in maintaining the value for designers time.
I'd be interested to hear more about the unethical nature of contests. To me it seems like if you don't want to work for free, you don't, and if you do, you do. Nobody's forcing you to do anything.
I work in more of the engineering side of the design world, and I can appreciate that I would not be interested in providing anything more than a conceptual design for free. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that such an arrangement would be unethical.
No graphic designer (not "artist" btw) of any worth would waste their time with a free contest. Designers do pro-bono work all the time, but I don't know any good one that will do spec work.
Nobody is being forced to enter, but the way this is set up, you're going to be get C-level talent on this, and get C-level results.
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I'd be interested to hear more about the unethical nature of contests. To me it seems like if you don't want to work for free, you don't, and if you do, you do. Nobody's forcing you to do anything.
I work in more of the engineering side of the design world, and I can appreciate that I would not be interested in providing anything more than a conceptual design for free. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that such an arrangement would be unethical.
It's the amount of "free" work being provided from potentially dozens of designers. I'm not exaggerating either, take a look at any project on 99designs and look at the number of entries they are getting for any given project. Here's 112 designs from 15 designers, all for $350
You are right though, no one forces anyone to work for free, but if I choose to work for free (say a charity or community group I suppose) I get some say in the matter.
But it is hard to look past the for profit business throwing out a bone of say $500, and getting 100's of designs for it. Even if we say each designer's time is worth an even $500/each (times 15) they are getting closer to $7,500 work for that $500. And once again, they are a for profit company, getting custom made work, specifically for their product.
I wouldn't argue for a second that there's isn't a cost of doing business, be it consulting, proposals RFP's etc. What I would argue is that no entity (be it government, business, etc) should be getting 4-5+ final options for the cost of one.
I guess it's the difference between having a bakery offer a tasting of their cake weeks before the wedding, VS having 5 bakeries show up with the day of the wedding with completed cakes and only paying for one.
No one would argue that doing sample tastings a variety of bakeries is in poor taste, most would agree the second scenario is most unreasonable.
The bar is currently set at ZERO for cost. 3M has already put forward three options that cost the taxpayers nothing. Whether you like it or not, in this particular case money won't (or shouldn't) be a factor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Table 5
you're going to be get C-level talent on this, and get C-level results.
THAT is a huge assumption.
You may very well get a fantastic result, and perhaps from a student who wants to go into this industry. You just do NOT know.
I would actually expect an A result, simply due to the sheer volume of potential options.
You may very well get a fantastic result, and perhaps from a student who wants to go into this industry. You just do NOT know.
I would actually expect an A result, simply due to the sheer volume of potential options.
It's a huge assumption based on over a decade of professional experience in the design industry, and teaching at the one of the top 4 degree-granting art-schools in the country where I get to see what type of talent comes out.
What are your assumptions based on? Gee-whiz optimism?
You may get a fantastic result (from a recent grad though, not from someone "trying to get into the industry")...but the odds are not in your favor. Why does every design contest here have come down to "students getting a chance to impress"? A license plate is one of the bigger public-facing pieces in terms of giving the province an identity...why does it not deserve real professionals?
I think we should let the oilsands be run by toddlers. They have great experience playing with Tonka trucks. You just do NOT know!
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It's a huge assumption based on over a decade of professional experience in the design industry, and teaching at the one of the top 4 degree-granting art-schools in the country where I get to see what type of talent comes out.
What are your assumptions based on? Gee-whiz optimism?
You may get a fantastic result (from a recent grad though, not from someone "trying to get into the industry")...but the odds are not in your favor. Why does every design contest here have come down to "students getting a chance to impress"? A license plate is one of the bigger public-facing pieces in terms of giving the province an identity...why does it not deserve real professionals?
I think we should let the oilsands be run by toddlers. They have great experience playing with Tonka trucks. You just do NOT know!
Out of curiosity, how would you grade the three designs put forth by 3m? They look like at most a " C" effort to me.
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Out of curiosity, how would you grade the three designs put forth by 3m? They look like at most a " C" effort to me.
The white bar design is not even worthy of a C especially if it was designed by a professional. If it was designed by a grade 1 student maybe a C is appropriate.
Out of curiosity, how would you grade the three designs put forth by 3m? They look like at most a " C" effort to me.
I'll give you the lame non-answer version first.
At the end of the day, we can give grades and argue about aesthetics till the cows come home but personally, my issue is with the basic decision to go down the "more-is-more" trend of illustrated/photo route that you see with a lot of plates these days.
I come from the design camp that thinks that license plates need to put emphasis on functionality first, because things like legibility and simplicity are important for something like this. So in my opinion, going down the route of a "illustrated/photo" background of a landscape, as opposed to a more graphic route, is not the best direction in the first place. I think designing a license plate takes a lot of restraint, because it can easily be over designed. I have a feeling there were a lot of chiefs involved in this process.
However, if we are going down the illustrated route (and to try to answer your actual question) I think the 1st one with the mountain/field is not that bad. The colors go well together and it's aesthetically nice, if not very original. Not great by any means, but not offensive. Id give it a B- considering the parameters.
The white-strip gradient one on the other hand is truly bad. The gradient is bad enough, and once you put the stickers on, you will barely even see the mountain. Comes across as very lazy. F.
The other one just seems way too washed out. It can't make up it's mind whether it wants to exist or not. I'd rather it didn't. D.
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It's a huge assumption based on over a decade of professional experience in the design industry, and teaching at the one of the top 4 degree-granting art-schools in the country where I get to see what type of talent comes out.
What are your assumptions based on? Gee-whiz optimism?
One assumption I have is that someone from your, err, brethren added a blue square to the tail of the last "a" in the current Alberta logo. And probably got paid very well for it.
Another is that it is simple math on this one. Millions versus hundreds.
Out of the potential hundreds of your brethren, I would expect some very good results. I would also expect some colossal failures as well.
Let's be generous and say that your group has a 90% success rate and there are a couple hundred of you. So, 180 potential design possibilities.
Do you honestly think that given the population of Alberta that there would not be an equal, if not greater amount of quality submissions than that? And again, at no cost to the taxpayer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Table 5
You may get a fantastic result (from a recent grad though, not from someone "trying to get into the industry")...but the odds are not in your favor. Why does every design contest here have come down to "students getting a chance to impress"? A license plate is one of the bigger public-facing pieces in terms of giving the province an identity...why does it not deserve real professionals?
You and Jaydorn seem to be implying protectionism. We already have way too much of that, and it isn't beneficial to the average Joe.
Let's take a very local example for the amateur versus professional debate.
I submit our own "Resident Videologist" Mr "AC".
Anthony has provided us with jaw dropping and at times tear invoking videos that more often than not surpass anything we see from the pros.
And he has been doing that here since his mid-teens, without any formal training to my knowledge.
His work is FAR more detailed and elaborate than some simple license plate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Table 5
I think we should let the oilsands be run by toddlers. They have great experience playing with Tonka trucks. You just do NOT know!
I am pretty sure a few toddlers are adept enough with a computer to come up with an acceptable license plate design. Far better chance of that than you or Jaydorn running the oilsands.
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Well there is one flaw in your assumption. Millions is the population of Alberta, but not the amount of people interested in the contest so you can't really use that in your argument. (IE Millions vs hundreds)
Do you really think there would be more than 1000 entries? I feel that's generous, but could be around there.
I get both sides to this argument. I don't really have a side either. But working an assumption from a talent pool of millions is probably very fuzzy math.
I would say there probably wouldn't be an equal number (180 from your example) of quality submissions. Generally in design contests you end up picking from a top 10, 5, or 3. True quality submissions that are weeded out before that? Probably not more than double.
All that said, I'm not entirely against the contest either. Just that, if we're going to compare apples to apples, let's look at the situation as truthfully as we can.
In a design competition you will get 0 trained people and only hobbyiests. It isnt zero cost because you still have to operate and judge this contest. If the actual IP is worth 25k, the cost of running the contest probably is 100k. so you pay 25% more to get 10 design options out of a design firm that knows what they are doing or you save 25k and get 100 designs of varying quality.
I guess we just don't share the same view, in my opinion design contest are unethical. But I have a vested (and very biased) interest in maintaining the value for designers time.
I think you are confusing "things that are ethical" with "things that don't serve you well".
It's a free country, if someone wants to hold a contest that results in free labour they can do so. In fact, Restricting that in any way is anti-competitive and probably illegal.
