The Ongoing Dog Attack Mega-Thread

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by fotze

Now those are just cute.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

Same reason you can buy a knife from a store without any background or waiting period vs. a gun.

I'd hold the average gun buyer to a higher standard of screening than the average knife buyer.

That was exactly my point, Owners are the ones that should be held to higher standards, not the dogs. I am very much in favor of higher standards and screening when someone is looking to buy a "dangerous" breed. I believe that could drastically change the identity and reputation of those breeds.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by pylon

...., and the only thing that would be hurt are the feelings of every Dodge Ram with truck nutz driving, affliction shirt wearing, sleeve tattoo sporting, white Oakley sunglasses on the back of the head resting D-bag that buys one of these things to compensate for his extreme case of medically confirmed Micropenis.

This doesn't strengthen your arguement. It weakens it. This makes you appear like an #######.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by jonesy

This doesn't strengthen your arguement. It weakens it. This makes you appear like an #######.

Fotze alluded to this earlier in the thread:

Originally Posted by fotze

The characteristics of the owners of these types of dogs has to be the most homogeneous of any group of people on the planet. Owners of pitbulls are so closely the same that they make the Duggar family look like a bunch of bastages.

Go anywhere dog owners routinely get together like a dog park. Or even go to a dog show. The owners of these dogs in more cases than not, are the guy I described. They buy the dog primarily to complete an image and exude 'toughness.' The dog is a walking neck tattoo, or Ed Hardy shirt to them. They should have little true religion jeans for pit bulls, so they can accessorize their accessory dog.

They are the southern gun loving rednecks of the dog ownership world. My rights to own a killing machine of a dog, trump your child's rights. And when these dogs maul people, the owners are typically highly unapologetic, and always blame the person or animal attacked for somehow antagonizing their dog. Because 3 year old should be able to understand a dogs body language.

I 100% agree with the sentiment these dogs can be loving pets. That has never been an argument of mine. The problem is the fact that unlike most other breeds, when they do attack, they are programmed to:

a) Never let go (part of the Terrier trait), owners of these dogs have been unable to break their bite once the dog latches on, hence why they recommend you carry a break stick to save another dog or human should it attack.

b) Cause massively traumatic injury.

c) Are typically bought by the last people that should ever own a dog.

All you pit bull apologists that claim these dogs are just as docile as a Yorkie, this link comes from a pro-pitbull rescue site. Just reading this page acknowledges the dangers of the dogs. When there is a heavily marketed tool, specific to a breed-type, to break it's death grip, you have to acknowledge they are not a normal dog:

http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

You need to extend your history of the dog. The pit bull is no longer the same dog that was used for bear baiting.

That was bordeline awful to read (the story about watching how dogs killed each other).

Originally Posted by wretched34

That was exactly my point, Owners are the ones that should be held to higher standards, not the dogs. I am very much in favor of higher standards and screening when someone is looking to buy a "dangerous" breed. I believe that could drastically change the identity and reputation of those breeds.

Not going to happen, requires too much willingness on the part of idiots to do something they can't be counted on to do.

Someone can bring a dog into a city and breed and just give or sell the dogs to anyone. We don't have backyard gun makers all over the city selling their wares on kijiji to morons. People who have registered their guns can put their guns into a room and in a few months have shiny new guns for resale.

I'm not at all for breed bans, I've done a ton of research on the issue and in a related situation have argued within a community where a ban was suggested that breed bans don't work as supported by the Ontario Veterinary Medical Association.

http://www.nationalcanineresearchcou...lity-act-dola/

But, the severity and results of a pitbull related attack are enough to concern me that there needs to be something done to protect kids/people/pets from what can be a fatal incident. Across all breeds or just larger damage breeds.

I think it should start with:
1. illegal to sell/breed dogs on kijiji
2. illegal to sell/breed dogs unless you're a registered kennel
3. kennel's only allowed to sell a certain number of dogs (to lessen mass breeding on poor mother dogs that become breeding machines)
4. more stiff registration rules
5. rescue organization's given more support
6. Mandatory spay neuter
7. houses limited to 2 or 3 dogs per household
8. 2 dog maxamim per person allowed when outside
9. more strict rules on dog walkers who take 10 dogs to the park and let them loose to crap everywhere and run amok without acutal control of the situation
10. more stiff punishments for breaking any of the above

Might seem a bit drastic, but a few of the above could be a general improvement on all dog related issues.

I don't know why people adopt dogs from mexico when we've got 100's here (side note)

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by pylon

Fotze alluded to this earlier in the thread:


...

All you pit bull apologists that claim .....

2 things:
-quoting Fotze as a source to justify your wide brushed "trying too hard to be funny" rant is amusing
-assuming i am a pit bull apologist is conclusion jumping.

I am scared ####less of 'pitbulls' I love dogs, have dogs but don't like being around 'pitbull' type dogs. I always think they will attack me or my dog. (this is probably not fair but that is the truth)

[combustiblefuel]

I'm not a pit bull specific apologist I am actually netruel . I just see both sides. I'm a Dog person period. I treat all dogs equal. To me there are two types period. The ones that have bitten and the ones that have not. Yes, American Pit bull Terrier s are sensationalized in the media. There is a reason tho that the Public Health Agency of Canada does not keep track by Breed because 80% of the time they can not determine the breed. The point is all types of dogs attack children. It sucks but that's the reality of it bigger dogs view them as prey. If the banned the breed from City's then fine.I would like them to ban some of the other ones that are aggressive as well. Rottweilers Huskeys and German Shepherds. Those are the next ones on the list according to dogbites.org. that frequently attack or kill. That's the thing tho if a Bull type dog bites you even slightly People are more inclined to report it.

I personally don't like Little dogs like Lhasa Apsos . I had one almost completely sever my Achilles tendon.
I walked by this damn dog almost everyday when his owner would walk him. Out of the blue as I passed them it just turned around and grabbed ahold . I went down pretty quick. All the owner got was a fine and the dog on the dangerous list.

Last month A German Shepherd got out of a yard and attacked me on my bike. Just lunged grabbed my forearm and tossed me down . It shook my arm a bit while the owner came and got him. Left some wicked teeth holes. It looks like that dog is going to me euthanized tho. I was not the first person it attacked. It was already on the Bite list and the owner was currently in a civil suit with his neighbor over a biting incident. This dog tho, I did feel bad for because it was only 2 years old and was a rescue dog . He just had some crappy owners before.

Bottom line is Any kind of dog at anytime could snap. If your going to ban one aggressive breed you have to get the other ones like German shepeards.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by pylon

All you pit bull apologists that claim these dogs are just as docile as a Yorkie, this link comes from a pro-pitbull rescue site. Just reading this page acknowledges the dangers of the dogs. When there is a heavily marketed tool, specific to a breed-type, to break it's death grip, you have to acknowledge they are not a normal dog:

http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

There's some pretty interesting tidbits in that article about the stick.

"Remember: pit bulls do not have a special mechanism or enzyme that allows them to "lock” their jaw, nor do they possess a higher than average “bite pressure.” They simply have the determination of a terrier."

"Attempting to use a break stick on other breeds could result in serious injury to the person using the stick. Since other breeds will unpredictably snap and bite instead of getting a grip, you are far more likely to be bitten. You also should not attempt to use a break stick with other terriers. While all terriers grab and hold, pit bulls are far less likely to redirect their bite on an intervening human than, say, a Jack Russell Terrier. For the same reason, you also need to be very careful when separating your pit bull from another breed. Your pit bull will probably not bite you, but you might get bitten by the other dog."

I totally hear where you're coming from as far as the types of people that normally own these dogs, but it's also pretty obvious that when trained like any other dog, they are not really any different. It's just that, like has been mentioned, the people that own these dogs WANT them to be intimidating for some ill-percieved form of badassery that comes along with it.

I can see problems with rescues in particular. Many rescue dogs will have previous issues, but I would guess pitbulls tend to have more mistreatment, and different kinds of mistreatment (trying to make them aggressive) than other breeds.

But I personally think a pure bred of any breed is a bad idea. So many avenues for different problems. As I said earlier I have a pit bull/sheppard and I have never seen a single thing from him that would make me worry about any innate aggressiveness.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by pylon

Fotze alluded to this earlier in the thread:



Go anywhere dog owners routinely get together like a dog park. Or even go to a dog show. The owners of these dogs in more cases than not, are the guy I described. They buy the dog primarily to complete an image and exude 'toughness.' The dog is a walking neck tattoo, or Ed Hardy shirt to them. They should have little true religion jeans for pit bulls, so they can accessorize their accessory dog.

They are the southern gun loving rednecks of the dog ownership world. My rights to own a killing machine of a dog, trump your child's rights. And when these dogs maul people, the owners are typically highly unapologetic, and always blame the person or animal attacked for somehow antagonizing their dog. Because 3 year old should be able to understand a dogs body language.

I 100% agree with the sentiment these dogs can be loving pets. That has never been an argument of mine. The problem is the fact that unlike most other breeds, when they do attack, they are programmed to:

a) Never let go (part of the Terrier trait), owners of these dogs have been unable to break their bite once the dog latches on, hence why they recommend you carry a break stick to save another dog or human should it attack.

b) Cause massively traumatic injury.

c) Are typically bought by the last people that should ever own a dog.

All you pit bull apologists that claim these dogs are just as docile as a Yorkie, this link comes from a pro-pitbull rescue site. Just reading this page acknowledges the dangers of the dogs. When there is a heavily marketed tool, specific to a breed-type, to break it's death grip, you have to acknowledge they are not a normal dog:

http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

Totally with you on this Pylon. Whether its politically correct to say in the dog world or not, it seems like a lot of people I see walking around with pit bulls are the type trying to perpetuate some type of macho/gangsta type demeanor, or get one because they think its "badass". They hardly strike me as someone who did hours of research trying to figure out the attributes of the breed and how to properly handle one and prevent it from become a weapon against other people/pets. Whether its guns, dogs, or anything else, letting morons have dangerous things is a bad idea for society, period.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I'm not a pit bull specific apologist I am actually netruel . I just see both sides. I'm a Dog person period. I treat all dogs equal. To me there are two types period. The ones that have bitten and the ones that have not. Yes, American Pit bull Terrier s are sensationalized in the media. There is a reason tho that the Public Health Agency of Canada does not keep track by Breed because 80% of the time they can not determine the breed. The point is all types of dogs attack children. It sucks but that's the reality of it bigger dogs view them as prey. If the banned the breed from City's then fine.I would like them to ban some of the other ones that are aggressive as well. Rottweilers Huskeys and German Shepherds. Those are the next ones on the list according to dogbites.org. that frequently attack or kill. That's the thing tho if a Bull type dog bites you even slightly People are more inclined to report it.

I personally don't like Little dogs like Lhasa Apsos . I had one almost completely sever my Achilles tendon.
I walked by this damn dog almost everyday when his owner would walk him. Out of the blue as I passed them it just turned around and grabbed ahold . I went down pretty quick. All the owner got was a fine and the dog on the dangerous list.

Last month A German Shepherd got out of a yard and attacked me on my bike. Just lunged grabbed my forearm and tossed me down . It shook my arm a bit while the owner came and got him. Left some wicked teeth holes. It looks like that dog is going to me euthanized tho. I was not the first person it attacked. It was already on the Bite list and the owner was currently in a civil suit with his neighbor over a biting incident. This dog tho, I did feel bad for because it was only 2 years old and was a rescue dog . He just had some crappy owners before.

Bottom line is Any kind of dog at anytime could snap. If your going to ban one aggressive breed you have to get the other ones like German shepeards.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...998/story.html

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...998/story.html

The exact same situation the German Shepherd here is in. Same scenario but, different city. That whole story shows dogs of any breed are just unpredictable no matter what.They are animals you cant get rid of natural instincts. the one thing in common tho, is their all working class of breeds. The Neapolitan mastiff blood lines can be traced back as far as ancient Greece as a working dog.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

That was bordeline awful to read (the story about watching how dogs killed each other).



Not going to happen, requires too much willingness on the part of idiots to do something they can't be counted on to do.

Someone can bring a dog into a city and breed and just give or sell the dogs to anyone. We don't have backyard gun makers all over the city selling their wares on kijiji to morons. People who have registered their guns can put their guns into a room and in a few months have shiny new guns for resale.

I'm not at all for breed bans, I've done a ton of research on the issue and in a related situation have argued within a community where a ban was suggested that breed bans don't work as supported by the Ontario Veterinary Medical Association.

http://www.nationalcanineresearchcou...lity-act-dola/

But, the severity and results of a pitbull related attack are enough to concern me that there needs to be something done to protect kids/people/pets from what can be a fatal incident. Across all breeds or just larger damage breeds.

I think it should start with:
1. illegal to sell/breed dogs on kijiji
2. illegal to sell/breed dogs unless you're a registered kennel
3. kennel's only allowed to sell a certain number of dogs (to lessen mass breeding on poor mother dogs that become breeding machines)
4. more stiff registration rules
5. rescue organization's given more support
6. Mandatory spay neuter
7. houses limited to 2 or 3 dogs per household
8. 2 dog maxamim per person allowed when outside
9. more strict rules on dog walkers who take 10 dogs to the park and let them loose to crap everywhere and run amok without acutal control of the situation
10. more stiff punishments for breaking any of the above

Might seem a bit drastic, but a few of the above could be a general improvement on all dog related issues.

I don't know why people adopt dogs from mexico when we've got 100's here (side note)

I would add on to the restrictions list. If a dog is over a certain weight and height that they must get a temperament testing done every x amount of years. kind of like how you go through a driving licencing program.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

The exact same situation the German Shepherd here is in. Same scenario but, different city. That whole story shows dogs of any breed are just unpredictable no matter what.They are animals you cant get rid of natural instincts. the one thing in common tho, is their all working class of breeds. The Neapolitan mastiff blood lines can be traced back as far as ancient Greece as a working dog.

I have to say this. Dogs like German Shepherds and Huskies serve a purpose. Shepherds are amazing police dogs, cadaver dogs, avalanche rescue dogs an therapy dogs. Husky's have been used for centuries by northern natives and explorers as a means of transportation. Pit Bulls serve no purpose other than the fact that people like them because they're "bad ass". There are far too much Pit Bull apologists out there. I hear from them nearly every time I take my dog to the dog park. "Oh I just really wanna make sure he's socialized", "well he just takes awhile to warm up to you", "he's never done that before", or my favourite "he's just playing rough" as he's grabbing another dog by the throat and stepping on it. I have had dogs my entire life, German Shepherds, Border Collies, a Husky Akita cross and now a Boston Terrier. Not one of them has bit me or snapped at me or anyone else. Now last week I go to a friends house who is hosting my wife's baby shower. They have a pit bull. This thing has seen me probably a dozen times, let me pet it, feed it, it knows who I am. I go to set a box of supplies down and it lunged at me trying to bite my leg but I got out of the way in time. Ive been attacked twice at work by pit bulls and ended up having to kill them. Sorry but if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it's a duck. There's a reason they have their reputation.

They serve zero purpose.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Ive been attacked twice at work by pit bulls and ended up having to kill them. Sorry but if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it's a duck. There a reason they have their reputation.

They serve zero purpose.

What do you do for a living? Law enforcement?

[Vulcan]

I personally don't like Little dogs like Lhasa Apsos . I had one almost completely sever my Achilles tendon.
I walked by this damn dog almost everyday when his owner would walk him. Out of the blue as I passed them it just turned around and grabbed ahold . I went down pretty quick. All the owner got was a fine and the dog on the dangerous list.

I had a Lhasa Apso, well it was really my daughter's dog. He didn't like men much and was a mean and stubborn little ####z who thought he was a lot bigger and tougher than he was but with my daughter and wife, it was another story. The thing is, I never saw him attack other dogs or purposely bite anyone and if he did, the damage wouldn't be near as traumatic as with a pit bull or other fighting dog.

He lived his last years out here in a rural setting where he could go visit as he pleased. A great environment for a non aggressive small dog. In a lot of ways I don't thing the city is a good place for dogs, especially large breeds.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by pylon

What do you do for a living? Law enforcement?

Yeah, RCMP

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Yeah, RCMP

As an RCMP officer, would you say there is a 'type' that buys these dogs?

[PeteMoss]

According to always accurate wikipedia, there were 31 deaths in the US caused by dogs. 24 of those were caused by pitbulls. So yes... they aren't the only breed that kills people but they do it at a much higher rate than anyone else.

There are so many other dogs out there.... why people NEED pitbulls is beyond me. Just grandfather in existing dogs and ban new ones.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I have to say this. Dogs like German Shepherds and Huskies serve a purpose. Shepherds are amazing police dogs, cadaver dogs, avalanche rescue dogs an therapy dogs. Husky's have been used for centuries by northern natives and explorers as a means of transportation. Pit Bulls serve no purpose other than the fact that people like them because they're "bad ass". There are far too much Pit Bull apologists out there. I hear from them nearly every time I take my dog to the dog park. "Oh I just really wanna make sure he's socialized", "well he just takes awhile to warm up to you", "he's never done that before", or my favourite "he's just playing rough" as he's grabbing another dog by the throat and stepping on it. I have had dogs my entire life, German Shepherds, Border Collies, a Husky Akita cross and now a Boston Terrier. Not one of them has bit me or snapped at me or anyone else. Now last week I go to a friends house who is hosting my wife's baby shower. They have a pit bull. This thing has seen me probably a dozen times, let me pet it, feed it, it knows who I am. I go to set a box of supplies down and it lunged at me trying to bite my leg but I got out of the way in time. Ive been attacked twice at work by pit bulls and ended up having to kill them. Sorry but if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it's a duck. There a reason they have their reputation.

They serve zero purpose.

I never posted anything about defending depending American Pit bull Terriers in that post. What I actually said was all dogs can be unpredictable. American Stafford shire Terrier are different.They were the first dogs used within he k9 units .
http://www.cesarsway.com/dogbehavior...-Get-a-Bad-Rap

"However, as the breed spread to Americans and Americans spread across the continent, pit bulls began to be put to their original use, as general purpose herding and working dogs. Because of their fighting history, though, the American Kennel Club would not recognize the breed until 1936, although they defined it as a Staffordshire terrier, distinct from the American pit bull terrier."



https://www.akc.org/breeds/american_...rier/index.cfm
"Courageous and strong, the American Staffordshire Terrier (Am Staff)'s athletic build and intelligence make him ideally suited to many dog sports such as obedience, agility, tracking and conformation."

I've been attacked by by many German shepherds but not calling for a total ban on the breed. I have owned 2 myself. If you go into some ones house dogs get protective. German Shepherds with out the right training do have have a reputation as well of biting. My Mother at one time in the 80's had bred German Shepherds for The Medicine Hat RCMP. There is a reason Police and Military use them. MY Girlfriends Aunt 2 years ago had to put down a Retired police dog because it had grabbed a Standard Poodle by Its neck and killed it.

You have had some good luck with dogs. Yes both the breeds you listed have a purpose TO WORK!!!That was the pupose of even domesticating dogs.Even Pomeranians where breed to be watch dogs due to their acute hearing. does a family need a large breed of working dog? If A dog is not able to do what they were bred to do it may have behavior issues. You can see this in Border Collies. They will innately try to herd everything and have a tendencies to nip.

I was never debating the issues that Americian pit bull Terriers in modern society. During the 80's with the resurgence with dog fighting and being used as a favorite guard dog of drug dealers this is not a surprise . What I am trying to say is re-purpose them like in the early days. keep them out of the hands of unintelligent people . Put them into Military service like in WW2 and the early days of the K9 units. My whole point is why does any person within the city other than Police need a working class breed?

Banning any type of breed wouldn't stop from being around. Drugs,guns,prostitution,human trafficking etc are banned but still around. During the days of prohibition on alcohol spawned vast criminal organizations. Banning something never seems to work out but, makes a problem worse.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by pylon

As an RCMP officer, would you say there is a 'type' that buys these dogs?

Heh, I see where you're going there. I think its a breed that attracts certain types of individuals. I think a lot of people rescue them with best intentions but I also think a lot of people buy them for the image and reputation.