Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Someone knew. Someone gave the order. Someone pulled the trigger. Someone arbitrarily decided to end the lives of 300 hundred innocent people (innocent from the conflict).

Yet somehow the flawed logic, finger pointing and doublespeak that comes out of the 'investigations' will allow the perpetrators to get away with it. (FUD - fear, uncertainty and doubt, will be flowing)

[Senator Clay Davis]

The Russian people are just as guilty as Putin right now. If they were condemning him things might be different. Instead they are lapping it up. He's basically giving them what they want.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

China, India, Brazil & Russia are all in the 10 largest economies in the world, not to mention the growth rates of China, India & Brazil.
It's only South Africa who is a way off the list. They're a lot more than just cheap labour countries.

Production economies, not consumption economies.

[edslunch]

If it is determined beyond reasonable doubt that the rebels fired the missile, what are the chances that the launcher(s) could be found and destroyed, either by Ukraine or the US. If the US did this directly would there be fallout with Russia?

[Knut]

@MillerMENA: Russia Could Make 'Targeted Strikes Against Ukraine: Lavrov http://t.co/JmxF91Cdma

@MillerMENA: Russian Air Force Targets and Intercepts Ukrainian Planes http://t.co/mFapOQ1wf4



@SimonOstrovsky: #Ukraine defense minister says #Russia stole anti aircraft unit used on #MH17 from Ukrainian base in Crimea and gave it to separatists

---> so. It is Ukrainian BUK used by the rebels.

@cnnbrk: U.S. "working theory" is Russian military gave Buk missile system to pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine, official says. http://t.co/uJLy7piCtf

--- > orrrr. Not

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Hesla

@SimonOstrovsky: #Ukraine defense minister says #Russia stole anti aircraft unit used on #MH17 from Ukrainian base in Crimea and gave it to separatists

---> so. It is Ukrainian BUK used by the rebels.

@cnnbrk: U.S. "working theory" is Russian military gave Buk missile system to pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine, official says. http://t.co/uJLy7piCtf

--- > orrrr. Not

Both of those could be true. Russian soldiers might have captured a Ukrainian Buk during their annexation of Crimea earlier this year and then later turned it over to rebel forces.

[Knut]

@UkraineConflict: #OSCE have not been allowed full access to #MH17 crash site - 'unable to move freely'

Surprise !

@AmbassadorPower: Scale of #MH17 disaster is horrific for people of Netherlands: Number of victims relative to total population is same as 9/11 for U.S.

@Slate: The AIDS experts killed in MH17 led efforts that have saved millions of lives: http://t.co/yfv5o93qOb http://t.co/nqM8Vw20GY

@TheTweetOfGod: When I made you in My image I was going through a period of extremely low self-esteem.

[JeanLucPicard]

Hopefully Russia (China and India too btw) never reaches a position where they're they're considered a "super power" in the world and are able to compete with US militarily. I'm happy w/ US with a monopoly on that and hopefully it continues for centuries...Those other countries are with dumb mentality when it comes to value of life. can't trust them in position of power yet.

Anyways, hopefully Russia is put into its place one way or another.

[Pointman]

Things look quite different from Moscow. Russian media are hell bent to prove that it was ukrainians that shot the plane down. Main arguments are that rebels don't have SAMs for this and ukranians did the same in 2001. It also should be noted, that Ukrainians were in denial for 8 days in 2001 and declined Russia's claims (which were eventually proven truth). Russians are claiming that rebel's BUK, shown in various pictures and videos, was not functioning. An army expert on TV defied Obama's statements that the missile was fired from rebel's territory, as he claimed that US satellite precision rate is not good enough to determine this.

Today a taxi driver asked me "Haven't you heard, those damn ukrainians shot down a civilian jet". I won't generalize one man into the whole nation, but the majority of Russians seem to think that it is ukrainians who did it.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by nik-

Production economies, not consumption economies.

Those economies consume oil, lots of oil

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by edslunch

If it is determined beyond reasonable doubt that the rebels fired the missile, what are the chances that the launcher(s) could be found and destroyed, either by Ukraine or the US. If the US did this directly would there be fallout with Russia?

What?!?!?!

[Knut]

@ARStrasser: “The cure for AIDS may have been on that plane, we just don’t know” http://t.co/Ig8oMcRIhJ

:-(

[nik-]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Those economies consume oil, lots of oil

So cutting themselves off from the rest of the planet gets them oil from where? Venezuela?

I didn't say there was no impact to us, I'm saying forming a block of poor countries and China and then only trading within each other is a hilariously bad decision.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Things look quite different from Moscow. Russian media are hell bent to prove that it was ukrainians that shot the plane down. Main arguments are that rebels don't have SAMs for this and ukranians did the same in 2001. It also should be noted, that Ukrainians were in denial for 8 days in 2001 and declined Russia's claims (which were eventually proven truth). Russians are claiming that rebel's BUK, shown in various pictures and videos, was not functioning. An army expert on TV defied Obama's statements that the missile was fired from rebel's territory, as he claimed that US satellite precision rate is not good enough to determine this.

Today a taxi driver asked me "Haven't you heard, those damn ukrainians shot down a civilian jet". I won't generalize one man into the whole nation, but the majority of Russians seem to think that it is ukrainians who did it.

No doubt. Putin must be happy to have such easy sheep to control.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by JeanLucPicard

Hopefully Russia (China and India too btw) never reaches a position where they're they're considered a "super power" in the world and are able to compete with US militarily. I'm happy w/ US with a monopoly on that and hopefully it continues for centuries...Those other countries are with dumb mentality when it comes to value of life. can't trust them in position of power yet.

Anyways, hopefully Russia is put into its place one way or another.

Russia and China are equal with the US now in terms of Military strength, i hate to say. People who dont think so... IMO are pretty naive...

For example, anyone who thinks the US have the most powerful Submarine force in the world is terribly wrong. Russia is right there, even with the US and China is coming along at a close 3rd.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

No doubt. Putin must be happy to have such easy sheep to control.

Something something North American media.

[Shnabdabber]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Russia and China are equal with the US now in terms of Military strength, i hate to say. People who dont think so... IMO are pretty naive...

For example, anyone who thinks the US have the most powerful Submarine force in the world is terribly wrong. Russia is right there, even with the US and China is coming along at a close 3rd.

China is currently developing their new class of nuclear subs too, no? Trying to find the article, I believe the plan was to have a half dozen or so of their next gen subs deployable within the next few years.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Hesla

@ARStrasser: “The cure for AIDS may have been on that plane, we just don’t know” http://t.co/Ig8oMcRIhJ

:-(

....

I love the fact that I have a job...

But the above is exactly whats wrong with this world and what makes me sick about war.

There are so many things out there that we as human beings need to trying to keep safe from, trying to research/cure, trying to discover and be safe in the process...

Fighting over lines drawn on a map and who was where first, what belongs to who and whos idea's and principals are more important... When a simple desease could come along and kill every single person like aids was on a path to. Just so unbelievably depressing wearing this uniform right now... Literally right now...

[Nsd1]

Originally Posted by nik-

So cutting themselves off from the rest of the planet gets them oil from where? Venezuela?

I didn't say there was no impact to us, I'm saying forming a block of poor countries and China and then only trading within each other is a hilariously bad decision.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp
According to this site they all produce oil and have vast reserves (click in the countries name). Russia, China and India are 2,3,4 respectively behind the US in terms of Military power. That's a powerful group their forming.

[JeanLucPicard]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Russia and China are equal with the US now in terms of Military strength, i hate to say. People who dont think so... IMO are pretty naive...

For example, anyone who thinks the US have the most powerful Submarine force in the world is terribly wrong. Russia is right there, even with the US and China is coming along at a close 3rd.

True I know. But I don't like it though.

All I was saying that I'd like US and EU to have more and more influence in the surrounding regions around Russia and China. I don't want to have their internal progress impeded, but I personally don't like seeing countries like that - who have relatively much terrible standards when it comes to rights in the country for their own people - gain global infleunce and compete with something like USA. I think how a country treats nationals within its borders translates to not only how they behave during conflicts, but also how they behave on international economic stage.