Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine

[Acey]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

I just HOPE the decision made was the belief that safety was a priority and not to save some fuel.

I have not had time to fully parse the text of the NOTAM but based on what I have seen so far, MH's dispatcher is not at fault. I get where you're going with this post... but it's not how air traffic control works.

I'm not saying more till I'm sure of it, but the implication of this post is not good.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I'd be curious to know if other airlines have been avoiding that area. It would be another black mark if it turns out most international carriers had already modified their routes before today.

Sounds like they were flying above closed airspace at 33,000 feet. From the surface to 32,000 feet was closed. Is that cutting it close? I dunno. Probably not. If the Ukrainian authorities only close it to 320 you just kinda assume you're good. In Canada at that altitude, we'd take you 2,000 feet above that restricted airspace so the lowest you could be is 34,000 feet. Would that extra 1,000 feet have been enough to get them out of the missile's range? Probably not, but maybe worth mentioning.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

I appreciate your insight, Acey. I will admit, when it comes to the Malaysian government, I tend to fall into the conspiracy side of things. I just can't help it, nor can every person who was born and raised in Malaysia. The government has given us no cause to trust them.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Acey

Sounds like they were flying above closed airspace at 33,000 feet. From the surface to 32,000 feet was closed. Is that cutting it close? I dunno. Probably not. If the Ukrainian authorities only close it to 320 you just kinda assume you're good. In Canada at that altitude, we'd take you 2,000 feet above that restricted airspace so the lowest you could be is 34,000 feet. Would that extra 1,000 feet have been enough to get them out of the missile's range? Probably not, but maybe worth mentioning.

No. Unfortunately with that SAM it was basically all or nothing for anything commercial

[Acey]

Originally Posted by nik-

No. Unfortunately with that SAM it was basically all or nothing for anything commercial

In that case, the first person I'm pointing to for blame is whoever didn't entirely close that airspace... not just to 320.

Oh, the hell to be paid here if anyone gets near Cold Lake restricted airspace without calling them first...

[CaptainCrunch]

The average range of the Buk missile system is 46000 feet

The boeing 777 43,000 feet

The boeing couldn't outspeed it or out maneuver it.

Once it was locked on it becomes math.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The boeing 777 43,000 feet

It's their certified ceiling but realistically I've never seen them go that high ever... they'd have to be ferrying it empty and even then, no. I'm assuming Ukrainian authorities were not expecting the Buk missile system to be in this area at this particular time.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

I don't see a scenario where Russia is responsible. They don't control what terrorist rebels do.

Really? you mean like the Russian troops in the intial invasion that had no insignia and hid their faces? I wouldn't be surprised if these were Russian troops that "defected" for the freedom of the eastern Ukranians

[Displaced Flames fan]

BBC is reporting that several international airlines which use the same route altered their routes months ago to avoid this airspace.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

BBC is reporting that several international airlines which use the same route altered their routes months ago to avoid this airspace.

Looks like yesterday's KLM Amsterdam - Singapore went over pretty much the exact same spot that this flight got shot down. And the day before. And Singapore Airlines. And the day before. Not saying the BBC is wrong... but they're wrong.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Acey

Looks like yesterday's KLM Amsterdam - Singapore went over pretty much the exact same spot that this flight got shot down. And the day before. And Singapore Airlines. And the day before. Not saying the BBC is wrong... but they're wrong.

He said several not all.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

He said several not all.

They mentioned Qantas and Korean Airlines specifically. Qantas moved their routes in March.

[Vulcan]

CNN is reporting there was a storm on the southern route thus causing the plane to reroute over the eastern Ukraine.

[sharkov]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I'd be curious to know if other airlines have been avoiding that area. It would be another black mark if it turns out most international carriers had already modified their routes before today.

No as Singaporean and Kazakh planes traversed the same path shortly after the incident.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

If that's what you felt it was, I'd argue it is the exact same thing you did in your initial response to me.

You seem to be focussing a lot on the way people are saying things. Let's get back to a content oriented discussion alright? A little less "You should be doing this, sarcasm is bad, don't pile on" and a little more on topic. lanny9 appears to be an adult, sounds like he can probably handle himself.

Ya know... For a relatively new guy to CP and a name like "Chill Cosby", you sure are antagonistic...

[Acey]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

He said several not all.

Given that half the dead are Dutch, the key indicator that this angle will go nowhere is who rather than how many: KLM, Royal Dutch Airlines, did not deviate.

[Displaced Flames fan]

What angle? It is just a confirmation that some airlines viewed that corridor a risk.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

What angle? It is just a confirmation that some airlines viewed that corridor a risk.

The angle that there is some grand conspiracy with MH alone intentionally flying over this airspace to put passengers at risk. I've been following this all day, and a surprising number of people were approaching it this way.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Acey

The angle that there is some grand conspiracy with MH alone intentionally flying over this airspace to put passengers at risk. I've been following this all day, and a surprising number of people were approaching it this way.

I wasn't going there. Just to be clear.