5-year-old, grandparents disappear from Calgary home

[Stanathan]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Same burden of proof required, same jury system, which means the same that happened in those cases (beyond a reasonable doubt) can apply here.

Different society and culture, and the fact that they didn't happen in Canada says a lot. Unless there is a mistrial from a screw up, I'm not concerned we will have an American style screw up.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Stanathan

Different society and culture, and the fact that they didn't happen in Canada says a lot. Unless there is a mistrial from a screw up, I'm not concerned we will have an American style screw up.

The jury didn't screw anything up. Prosecution didnt prove the case, and that can absolutely happen here. That's the justice system, you can't prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt, the accused is found not guilty. Best system in the world

[Stanathan]

Sorry pal, I don't feel the failings of the American prosecution system have anything to do with the success or failings of the Canadian prosecution system.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Stanathan

Sorry pal, I don't feel the failings of the American prosecution system have anything to do with the success or failings of the Canadian prosecution system.

The fact I picked the 3 most famous cases of people the general public thought was overwhelmingly guilty only to be acquitted, and that they are all American, doesn't mean people who appear guilty in Canada are automatically convicted.

Believe it or not that happens in Canada too. It just so happens that the most infamous cases are American. Probably because they tend to sensationalize everything. But its not some American dominant thing, it can happen in any country where there's a jury and the burden of proof is on the prosecution.

[Arya Stark]

Is it possible the evidence will get leaked when there is disclosure? I am not that familiar with criminal cases.

How about the timing? how long does a case like this usually take to get to trial?

[Stanathan]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The fact I picked the 3 most famous cases of people the general public thought was overwhelmingly guilty only to be acquitted, and that they are all American, doesn't mean people who appear guilty in Canada are automatically convicted.

Believe it or not that happens in Canada too. It just so happens that the most infamous cases are American. Probably because they tend to sensationalize everything. But its not some American dominant thing, it can happen in any country where there's a jury and the burden of proof is on the prosecution.

Cherry picking cases is all you are doing and that is the most illegitimate way to prove a point.

If you feel it is in good taste, you can "I told you so" in a few years if there is an acquittal.

Moving on.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by Stanathan

Cherry picking cases is all you are doing and that is the most illegitimate way to prove a point.

If you feel it is in good taste, you can "I told you so" in a few years if there is an acquittal.

Moving on.

I think you are missing his point. All he is saying is that it is not "with out a shadow of a doubt" a slam dunk for the prosecution. I am confident there will be a conviction, but wouldn't be surprised either if he is found not guilty.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

I think you are missing his point. All he is saying is that it is not "with out a shadow of a doubt" a slam dunk for the prosecution. I am confident there will be a conviction, but wouldn't be surprised either if he is found not guilty.

Pretty much. Unless he pleads out, any outcome is possible. As much as people want to lynch him right now, that doesn't mean he's going to be found guilty. I have already said I hope they get this right, but no guarantee they will. Hopefully they can strongly prove their case.

[JonDuke]

I think this is great.
For those who want to help the family financially:

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/neighbours...ians-1.1917293

Greg Head is a neighbor and friend of the O'Brien family and says a number of people have reached out asking how they can help the family.
“First, we’ve had a ton of people wanting to donate in some capacity and secondly, as I sat down with Rod and got to learn more about what their immediate needs are, there’s a lot of expenses that I think the general public doesn’t understand. I didn’t understand it myself until I sat down with the family,” said Head.

Head, with help from Nathan’s father, Rod O’Brien, set up a gofundme page to collect donations to help the family with things like memorial services, moving and storage costs for Alvin and Kathy's home and legal and estate fees.

Click HERE to donate.

EDIT:

People can also make a donation to the 'O'Brien Family Trust Account' at any ATB Financial Branch.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Pretty much. Unless he pleads out, any outcome is possible. As much as people want to lynch him right now, that doesn't mean he's going to be found guilty. I have already said I hope they get this right, but no guarantee they will. Hopefully they can strongly prove their case.

I fear the worst in this, a former detective(retired) buddy told me he thinks they charged him on circumstantial evidence because they didn't want the case to go cold. he also said Kim Ross is no dummy and they better have the best prosecutor on this.

[Slava]

There was an article in the Herald on this case and others where charges were laid without a body. In a couple cases it took months to find the bodies but the prosecution was still successful. I trust that the police and crown prosecution know what they're doing here, and while this might be a complex case, that they have solid evidence of some kind.

[RedMileDJ]

Looks like the organized search has been canceled due to "negative feedback" online.

I'm wondering where this feedback is being posted.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1455642/se...triple-murder/

UPDATE AT 6:38 P.M. MT: Organizers have called off the search, saying they received a lot of negative backlash and feedback on social media about their efforts.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Red-Mile-DJ

Looks like the organized search has been canceled due to "negative feedback" online.

I'm wondering where this feedback is being posted.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1455642/se...triple-murder/

Back a couple/few pages I linked the FB page of the idiots in Airdrie who organized a search crew. I say idiots at this point because if you read the page, some of them are pretty much flipping the bird (figuratively) at the police and insisting they're going out anyway. Unbelievable. Let's just compromise the whole investigation/case because of ego. It's that or they want some sort of 15 minutes of "fame." I can imagine the utter rage that would engulf me if this were my family and one of those doofuses (doofi?) effed things up in such a way that the murderer got off on a technicality.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Red-Mile-DJ

Looks like the organized search has been canceled due to "negative feedback" online.

I'm wondering where this feedback is being posted.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1455642/se...triple-murder/

Is a lot of it because they're poking around people's private property?

[RedMileDJ]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Is a lot of it because they're poking around people's private property?

I was under the impression that the people organizing this and the volunteers were not going to be going onto private property. At least that's what I remember from a news story.

In any case, I personally wouldn't want to see the case ruined due to a searcher compromising a scene. On the other hand, I would like to see the families get their members back.

Kind of conflicting, I guess. I believe the searchers have the right intent, but perhaps leave it to the professionals.

[Minnie]

They've either taken the group private/secret or pulled it down because the link no longer works. I was reading there not 15 minutes prior to my last post, watching them insist they were going out searching regardless.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Growing up in Calgary, I used to devour the Calgary Herald. Every, Dad would take section A (National News) and D(Business) and I'd run away with the rest (and trade later). Articles were reasonably lengthy, researched, and occasionally insightful. More facts than opinion - editorials were limited to the middle of section A with Rodewalt's latest political cartoon.

The Herald has certainly gone downward - pretty much being reduced to a "retransmitter" of press releases. Their staff today is pretty much a skeleton of what it once was.

Today's "Op-Ed" column however takes this to a new low. Not that I've paid to read the Herald in about 8 years (that's on you Dowbiggin / Postmedia), but I have a new level of contempt for that rag.

Blatchford: Calgary deserves to know more (about) Nathan O’Brien case

Choice Tidbits include:

In the two weeks the three were missing, the police — and there were 200 of them, working around-the-clock to find the missing — received more than 900 tips. People inundated the family with kindness, so much so that Jennifer O’Brien, Nathan’s mother, went out of her way to thank them.

These are the people who deserved to know a little more about the case, and what led police to prepare to charge “a man.”

The “prohibition” against identifying him was almost certainly self-imposed, either by Chief Hanson or prosecutors. There isn’t a case in the country which to my memory has been jeopardized by what police say — whatever they say — at a press conference to announce an arrest.

So the efforts and concern expressed by citizens must be rewarded by knowing the gory details of the case. Details that could potentially hinder the prosecution of the case.... This isn't like reading a book half way Blatchford and wanting to know how it ends... people understand it takes time for the legal process to unfold. Sorry you can't actually do some investigative reporting of your own to bring some new angles to this case, and are merely waiting for a press release for you to "spin" from behind your desk.

The whole press conference was a curiously bloodless and unnecessarily careful business,

Been watching a little too much Criminal Minds? Why is it that other than the outcome, the public needs to know the gory details of this case?

This isn’t to say that the Calgary police don’t have legitimate “hold-back” information, which if publicly released, might hurt a court case, though again, I can’t think of one where it has

For real? FFS - when the Herald Comments section correctly nails you - you really should know how bad your column was....

[4X4]

Originally Posted by fredr123

What's the rationale behind sentencing someone to multiple consecutive life sentences?

Ensuring that that person is never, ever let out of prison.

If this guy is guilty (or if it turns out to be someone else), I'd be proud of the Canadian justice system if the guilty person got max for each sentence. 25+25+10. 60 years before the possibility of parole.

Of course, the father in me wants that 60 years to be just for killing the child.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Growing up in Calgary, I used to devour the Calgary Herald. Every, Dad would take section A (National News) and D(Business) and I'd run away with the rest (and trade later). Articles were reasonably lengthy, researched, and occasionally insightful. More facts than opinion - editorials were limited to the middle of section A with Rodewalt's latest political cartoon.

The Herald has certainly gone downward - pretty much being reduced to a "retransmitter" of press releases. Their staff today is pretty much a skeleton of what it once was.

Today's "Op-Ed" column however takes this to a new low. Not that I've paid to read the Herald in about 8 years (that's on you Dowbiggin / Postmedia), but I have a new level of contempt for that rag.

Blatchford: Calgary deserves to know more (about) Nathan O’Brien case

Choice Tidbits include:



So the efforts and concern expressed by citizens must be rewarded by knowing the gory details of the case. Details that could potentially hinder the prosecution of the case.... This isn't like reading a book half way Blatchford and wanting to know how it ends... people understand it takes time for the legal process to unfold. Sorry you can't actually do some investigative reporting of your own to bring some new angles to this case, and are merely waiting for a press release for you to "spin" from behind your desk.



Been watching a little too much Criminal Minds? Why is it that other than the outcome, the public needs to know the gory details of this case?



For real? FFS - when the Herald Comments section correctly nails you - you really should know how bad your column was....

It was a terrible piece all around. Just full of head-shakers.

The weird thing is, Christie Blatchford isn't exactly a low-paid rookie grinding it out at the Herald as fast as possible. She's not even in Calgary. This comes from the National Post. She's been doing this for like 40 years, she's won awards, and done a lot of good stuff.

Lord only knows what she was thinking on this one. She just starts with a crazy premise - that we for some reason deserve to know more - and never digs out from underneath that idea.

I live in Calgary. Why do I "deserve" to know the details?

[Jimmy Stang]

I believe in freedom of the press, but she is rightfully being slammed for such a disgusting piece. Jeopardize an investigation into a murdered kid because you feel entitled to instant information. Who the hell do you think you are? Seriously - eff off. I wish that I could say I expect better from her and the Herald...