Summer 2014 Prospect Ranking Poll Rd3

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Table 5

If all of the Top 10 players achieve their highest potential, I think we have the ability to be a Cup contender (provided we get some defense at some point). Now we all know that won't happen, but man, even if 4/5 out of these guys turn out as hoped, that's a fantastic group of kids to work with.

I'm totally drinking the kool-aid on this group.

I'm also drinking the kool-aid while reading with rose colored glasses and jamming to "Red Hot" with this coming crew.

Gaudreau
Bennett
Sven
Wotherspoon
Poirier
Gillies
Ortio
Sieloff
Granlund
Klimchuk

Will likely all be NHLers in capacities varying from stud to servicable role player. Then there's wild cards like Jankowski, Culkin, Kulak, Ferland, Wolf, Knight, Reinhart that will likely all see NHL action in some form, but there's probably a few non-players in there.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Going with Klimchuk. I think this kid is going to be a very underrated prospect.

I think he'll always be that one prospect that stays under the radar. Probably a good reason why I like him. I have him behind Poirier (4) at #5.

[btimbit]

Went with Granlund. Very close between him and Sven.

[mikephoen]

Looks like Sven takes this round more easily than I expected. I just couldn't vote for a player that had that bad of a year. Regression in a prospect is a really bad sign. From reading the comments, I feel like I'm much more down on him than others are.

[Poe969]

I voted Sven but I'd be happy with Granlund, Sven or Porier as #3 4 or 5 in any order.

[StrykerSteve]

I hate that I can't see polls on the tapatalk app.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

I hate that I can't see polls on the tapatalk app.

60% Sven ~120 Votes
30% Poirier ~60 Votes

a couple dozen guys pushing hard for Granlund.

And a few votes for most of the other guys you would expect in the top 10.

[StrykerSteve]

I'll be voting for Sven later tonight when I get home, thanks.

[djsFlames]

Really, Sven should have lit up the AHL when he went down - in production as well as strength in different situations. He didn't. There was an adjustment period for a few weeks, which is fine, but even after that he wasn't contributing on the level he should've been for a supposed prospect of that 'caliber', instead, guys like Reinhart, Jones and Granlund were leading the way. Not like the club as a whole was struggling, either. They had a great season for the most part, but Sven still was just a supporting player instead of a taking the reins and taking a step with his game. He got back roughly to where he was over the season, but not where he could've been. Perhaps it's a mental thing, and he needs to shrug it off, but this year wasn't encouraging from Sven. I think he's slipped a spot or two on our prospect depth chart because of it. I don't care if he managed 0.50 PPG in a limited sample of NHL games, he was contributing on the scoresheet the odd time but wasn't contributing to wins by playing a full and rounded game and accepting (willingly) the responsibilities he had outside of the opponent's blue line.

Should be taken into consideration before jumping on him at 3 simply because of his offensive ceiling. He still needs that toolbox if he's ever going to become a useful player at the next level.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Baertschi certainly is not a laid back person. I don't know where you've heard this.

I meant his style of play. He doesn't seem assertive and doesn't seem to have a lot of emotion on the ice unless he is scoring. He seems like one of those players that will have to play on the top lines if he is going to make it, whereas Poirier seems like he has more versatility.

I love Baertschi's skill level though and I think he has a chance of eventually being a full time NHLer, but I just think players with a little more grit like Poirier, have a little more utility and are therefore more valuable if they also have a fair amount of offensive talent.

[RyZ]

Baertschi is the kind of a guy that the Flames are going to give up on, trade for a 2nd rounder or other "struggling" prospect and then go to his new team and be given top 6 linemates and PP time and put up legit top 6 production in his first full season with the other team ala Kyle Turris or Cody Hodgeson.

He should be in the NHL and should have been all last year as well. As mentioned previously, he's already a top 6 point producing winger at the NHL level (in terms of points per game). If I'm Sven and I'm not given a real shot next season I quietly ask Treliving if he can keep his options open for a move.

[bubbsy]

it's so interesting how much perception has changed.

After being drafted, you would read so much about baertchi's great attitude and desire to get better and better.

[Rick M.]

People keep commenting how bad a defensive player Sven was last season but he was only -4 (he was a plus player in his previous appearances). Are we going to send Monahan down for being -20? These guys are playing on a weak team. I think, at least in part, that Sven was sent down to show that this was no longer Feaster's team. I hope he makes the team this year out of training camp but I suspect if he's still in Addy at Christmas he will be on another club's roster soon afterwards.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

it's so interesting how much perception has changed.

After being drafted, you would read so much about baertchi's great attitude and desire to get better and better.

I think attitude can have different attributes.

In stuff related to hockey Baertschi was always a hard worker. Even when he was having a rough training camp, he still showed up in some of the best shape in camp.

I think it is more of an off ice mental issue for Baertschi. When things are going well he can become too full of himself (potential entitlement issue rumors), and when thinks are bad he gets down on him self and feels sorry for himself (Post Mid-Season demotion to the Heat).

I also think he had a hard time adjusting to life on his own last season. His was his first year in his own house where he had to manage his life, in addition to just playing hockey. That was something that Ward had alluded to in an interview last season.

Hopefully he has a strong training camp, sticks with the Flames, and shows flashes of what made him a 2 PPG player in junior.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

People keep commenting how bad a defensive player Sven was last season but he was only -4 (he was a plus player in his previous appearances). Are we going to send Monahan down for being -20? These guys are playing on a weak team. I think, at least in part, that Sven was sent down to show that this was no longer Feaster's team. I hope he makes the team this year out of training camp but I suspect if he's still in Addy at Christmas he will be on another club's roster soon afterwards.

Yes, you are absolutely right, his +/- tells the whole story.

[#-3]

I know Burke is vary against pumping the tires of prospects publicly.

But I think giving Baertschi an NHL number was a way of giving him a vote of confidence, that the public wouldn't jump over. I think Jersey numbers a one of the few things players take more seriously than the Public does.

There is a good chance Sven will be given a good chance to stick this year. If he shows no progress this year again, I think a big fall in the rankings will probably be warranted. (If Bennett, Poirier, Granlund, Reinhart, Wootherspoon, and Seiloff are still "prospects". There is a good chance several of them will not be on the poll next year).

[868904]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

it's so interesting how much perception has changed.

After being drafted, you would read so much about baertchi's great attitude and desire to get better and better.

Mind you, when he was drafted, the guy who was making all those positive statements about Sven was Feaster, the salesman.

My problem with Sven's attitude stems from two things that happened last year:

1) He apparently felt he didn't need to be at development camp and the prospect tourney. Where did this sense of entitlement come from? If you are that passionate about the game, wouldn't you want to be out there?

2) When he was being criticized for his struggles at the prospect tourney, he used the excuse that the game was too slow for him and he plays better with NHL guys. I think he should have just owned up to his struggles instead of making up an excuse like that. Especially since he didn't exactly excel when the NHL guys showed up. The last time a prospect used this argument to explain his troubles at a lower level of play was Leland Irving, and he ended up in Finland the next season.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by timbit

Does anyone else have concerns about Sven's foot speed?

He does not get to loose pucks or create separation when he gets open ice like one would hope, IMO.

His vision and stick skills are elite, however , he needs to have the puck more. IMO, that comes down to lack of quickness and/ or lack of willingness to engage.

That's definitely something Sven needs to work on, but I'd say the bigger issue with him is that he reaches for pucks with his stick rather than taking the extra couple of strides to actually get there. If he thinks he won't get the puck or will get creamed, he'll reach for it with futility. It's pretty frustrating actually. When he does that, he just looks like a wet noodle out there.

I know I'm probably starting to sound like I hate Sven. That's totally not the case. I simply think he's not as well rounded as other players we now have in the cupboard. Again, he's still a top 5 prospect. He just has to work more on rounding out his game.

[ricardodw]

Let's see... Granlund played 2 years in the WJC .... the 2nd year at the same age as RNH he had 5 goals an 7 assists in 6 games .... RNH coming off of solid NHL: rookie year had 15 pts in 6 games in that tourney.

Granlund was able to play 2 years after he was drafted because he is 7 months younger than Baertschi

So after that he comes over to the AHL and playing in a smaller ice surface totally without compliant or problem adapts and 46 pts in 52 games.

The older Baertschi, after 2 years in the CHL was only able to put up 26 pts in 32 games in his equivalents season.

The brief NHL success of Baertschi gave him such a big head that he felt slighted to play in the young guns tourney and did not take the opportunity to show case his dominance of the young players.

The biggest highlight from Baertschi last year was him providing advice to Monahan on how to handle the fame and high expectations.


Meanwhile Granlund just was doing what he needed to be prepared for the NHL.


If the Flames are going to go with 3 small forwards: Hudler , Gaudreau and either Granlund or Baertschi I would want the mentally tougher Granlund given the first chance. He has progressed while Baertschi seems to have fallen back .... possibly due to the high expectations.


Marcus has really been keeping up with his more famous (higher drafted) older brother..Mikael.

2 years ago Mikael had 30 pts in 34 games in his first look at the smaller AHL ice surface.... eerily similar to Markus's 51 pts in 56 games... (including playoffs in both)

Last year Mikael had 41 pts in 63 NHL games.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think attitude can have different attributes.

In stuff related to hockey Baertschi was always a hard worker. Even when he was having a rough training camp, he still showed up in some of the best shape in camp.

I think it is more of an off ice mental issue for Baertschi. When things are going well he can become too full of himself (potential entitlement issue rumors), and when thinks are bad he gets down on him self and feels sorry for himself (Post Mid-Season demotion to the Heat).

I also think he had a hard time adjusting to life on his own last season. His was his first year in his own house where he had to manage his life, in addition to just playing hockey. That was something that Ward had alluded to in an interview last season.

Hopefully he has a strong training camp, sticks with the Flames, and shows flashes of what made him a 2 PPG player in junior.

Exactly.... This is why Granlund's last year is freaking amazing. Playing hockey on the small rink in a new country (food, language, being away from home) for the first time. Now that Grandlund has had a year to adjust (rather than Sven's 3) I can see him taking off.