bleeding red, here is your buddy again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSCL9sYoL-s
i like how you chose a 15 year old confused boy who is probably being paid good loot from the mossad, i gave you a man who's grandfather signed the israeli declaration of independence!!!
The politics of the moment are fascinating and dreadful, but what really interests me currently is a counterfactual: What if, nine years ago, when Israel withdrew its soldiers and settlers from Gaza, the Palestinians had made a different choice. What if they chose to build the nucleus of a state, rather than a series of subterranean rocket factories?
This thought is prompted by something a pair of Iraqi Kurdish leaders once told me. Iraqi Kurdistan is today on the cusp of independence. Like the Palestinians, the Kurds deserve a state. Unlike most of the Palestinian leadership, the Kurds have played a long and clever game to bring them to freedom.
This is what Barham Salih, the former prime minister of the Kurdistan Regional Government, told me years ago: “Compare us to other liberation movements around the world. We are very mature. We don’t engage in terror. We don’t condone extremist nationalist notions that can only burden our people. Please compare what we have achieved in the Kurdistan national-authority areas to the Palestinian national authority. … We have spent the last 10 years building a secular, democratic society, a civil society.” What, he asked, have the Palestinians built?
So too, Massoud Barzani, the president of the Kurdistan Regional Government, once told me this: “We had the opportunity to use terrorism against Baghdad. We chose not to.”
In 2005, the Palestinians of Gaza, free from their Israeli occupiers, could have taken a lesson from the Kurds -- and from David Ben-Gurion, the principal Israeli state-builder -- and created the necessary infrastructure for eventual freedom. Gaza is centrally located between two large economies, those of Israel and Egypt. Europe is just across the Mediterranean. Gaza could have easily attracted untold billions in economic aid.
The Israelis did not impose a blockade on Gaza right away. That came later, when it became clear that Palestinian groups were considering using their newly liberated territory as a launching pad for attacks. In the days after withdrawal, the Israelis encouraged Gaza’s development. A group of American Jewish donors paid $14 million for 3,000 greenhouses left behind by expelled Jewish settlers and donated them to the Palestinian Authority. The greenhouses were soon looted and destroyed, serving, until today, as a perfect metaphor for Gaza’s wasted opportunity.
You realize that guy is a holocaust denier? He has tried to soften his stance, but he is still a fool.
Every group has useful idiots, this is one of them.
The 'About' section from the video you posted states Israel is a terrorist state, is that really what you think?
This point interests me.
I, personally, don't believe Israel is a terrorist state, but because you seem to have dodged some of the evidence before, I'm curious:
What, would you say, is the key difference between Hamas, a terrorist organization, and Israel regarding the way in which they conduct combat?
I don't mean intent, nor who is at fault and causing the other to retaliate, (as that is the whole core of the debate, with many on each side) but their ACTUAL method of combat. The way they attack the other side, the residual cost of each attack. I find it fairly interesting that there really doesn't seem to be too much of a difference.
What is it that DEFINES Hamas as a terrorist group? And do you find it interesting that in the name if a seemingly nobler cause, Israel is guilty of many of the same things?
This point interests me.
I, personally, don't believe Israel is a terrorist state, but because you seem to have dodged some of the evidence before, I'm curious:
What, would you say, is the key difference between Hamas, a terrorist organization, and Israel regarding the way in which they conduct combat?
I don't mean intent, nor who is at fault and causing the other to retaliate, (as that is the whole core of the debate, with many on each side) but their ACTUAL method of combat. The way they attack the other side, the residual cost of each attack. I find it fairly interesting that there really doesn't seem to be too much of a difference.
What is it that DEFINES Hamas as a terrorist group? And do you find it interesting that in the name if a seemingly nobler cause, Israel is guilty of many of the same things?
Whether you choose to believe it or not, Israel goes to great lengths to avoid Palestinian casualties, even putting the safety of their own soldiers at risk and paying for treatment of Palestinian victims in Israeli hospitals.
Hamas on the other hand tries to maximize civilian casualties on both sides.
You can argue that Hamas has no choice, due to resource imbalance, but to characterize the Israeli army and Hamas as equivalent is false.
They're also treating hundreds of thousands of Palestinians every year. Israel also trains Palestinians doctors in their hospitals, who go back into the Palestinian territories.
Hamas, on the other hand, has been pretty clear about their goal of eliminating the other side.
This point interests me.
I, personally, don't believe Israel is a terrorist state, but because you seem to have dodged some of the evidence before, I'm curious:
What, would you say, is the key difference between Hamas, a terrorist organization, and Israel regarding the way in which they conduct combat?
I don't mean intent, nor who is at fault and causing the other to retaliate, (as that is the whole core of the debate, with many on each side) but their ACTUAL method of combat. The way they attack the other side, the residual cost of each attack. I find it fairly interesting that there really doesn't seem to be too much of a difference.
What is it that DEFINES Hamas as a terrorist group? And do you find it interesting that in the name if a seemingly nobler cause, Israel is guilty of many of the same things?
You can define Hamas as a terrorist group based on their conduct of launching rockets, kidnapping citizens, the suicide bombings and the bus attacks etc that they've openly claimed credit for.
On the other side of things, since they won the election and they have continued these activities after forming a government you could argue that what they are doing is an act of war between governments and in that case if we recognize Hamas as a legitimate government then they are just as guilty of their activities as Israel, with the exception being that Hamas willingly puts their own citizens in harms way.
Its one or the other, there's no in between.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CaptainCrunch For This Useful Post:
This point interests me.
I, personally, don't believe Israel is a terrorist state, but because you seem to have dodged some of the evidence before, I'm curious:
What, would you say, is the key difference between Hamas, a terrorist organization, and Israel regarding the way in which they conduct combat?
I don't mean intent, nor who is at fault and causing the other to retaliate, (as that is the whole core of the debate, with many on each side) but their ACTUAL method of combat. The way they attack the other side, the residual cost of each attack. I find it fairly interesting that there really doesn't seem to be too much of a difference.
What is it that DEFINES Hamas as a terrorist group? And do you find it interesting that in the name if a seemingly nobler cause, Israel is guilty of many of the same things?
You know, there are better ways to validate your point that Israel needs to perhaps change a lot of their policies then accusing Israel of being like Hamas.
You know, there are better ways to validate your point that Israel needs to perhaps change a lot of their policies then accusing Israel of being like Hamas.
I'm more genuinely curious as to how certain trains of thought differentiate between two things and what qualifies one as "terrorism" and another as an "act of war", which I think Captain detailed a little bit with his post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
On the other side of things, since they won the election and they have continued these activities after forming a government you could argue that what they are doing is an act of war between governments and in that case if we recognize Hamas as a legitimate government then they are just as guilty of their activities as Israel, with the exception being that Hamas willingly puts their own citizens in harms way.
I'm not necessarily making a point about policy change, just that I find the distinction in certain similar aspects fascinating, and certainly worth discussion. I'll take your presumptuous post as a by-product of some of the disputes in the thread, since I'm not entirely sure if you understood the intent, perhaps as a result of poor wording on my part.
Last edited by Chill Cosby; 07-13-2014 at 09:20 PM.
Terrorism doesn't have an internationally recognized definition. Anytime a group goes against a government they're labeled as terrorists to deligitimize their cause.
With that said, and even though I'm staunchly pro-palestine and anti-israel, I'm also not a fan of Hamas, their tactics or what they stand for. I do get, though, why they exist.
The 'About' section from the video you posted states Israel is a terrorist state, is that really what you think?
Excuse me? Do you actually believe I wrote the "about" section on that video? I watched what the guy in the video said, didn't read what the publisher of the video wrote.
"Now maybe I can say that at the discussion of the holocaust, I may be the representative, the voice of the people who died in the holocaust because my grandparents died there. They were killed in Auschwitz. My parents were from Hungary. My father escaped and his parents remained. He wasn't able to get them out of Hungary and they died in Auschwitz as were other relatives and all the communities that they knew. So to say that they didn't die, to me you cannot say that. I am the living remnant of the people who died in the holocaust and I am here, I believe sent by God, to humbly say, simply to speak to the people here and say, 'You should know that the Jewish people died, and do not try to say that it did not happen. They did die!' There are people throughout the Jewish communities, still alive in their seventies and eighties and every one of them will tell you their stories. It is something which you can not refute, but that being said, it doesn't mean that the holocaust is a tool to use to oppress other people.[2]"
"Now maybe I can say that at the discussion of the holocaust, I may be the representative, the voice of the people who died in the holocaust because my grandparents died there. They were killed in Auschwitz. My parents were from Hungary. My father escaped and his parents remained. He wasn't able to get them out of Hungary and they died in Auschwitz as were other relatives and all the communities that they knew. So to say that they didn't die, to me you cannot say that. I am the living remnant of the people who died in the holocaust and I am here, I believe sent by God, to humbly say, simply to speak to the people here and say, 'You should know that the Jewish people died, and do not try to say that it did not happen. They did die!' There are people throughout the Jewish communities, still alive in their seventies and eighties and every one of them will tell you their stories. It is something which you can not refute, but that being said, it doesn't mean that the holocaust is a tool to use to oppress other people.[2]"
Holocaust denier is one of those ultra-loaded terms like anti-semite that is often used to silence criticisms.
Because it's difficult to call a Rabbi an anti-semite with a straight face, 'self-loathing jew', 'radical leftist' or 'holocaust denier' is usually the go-to.
Excuse me? Do you actually believe I wrote the "about" section on that video? I watched what the guy in the video said, didn't read what the publisher of the video wrote.
You posted a video that has an about section claiming Israel is a terrorist state, I should ignore that? This is exactly what you posted. I asked what your thoughts were.
This is a minefield and you can see how quickly some sources are hateful 'below the surface'.
This point interests me.
I, personally, don't believe Israel is a terrorist state, but because you seem to have dodged some of the evidence before, I'm curious:
I dodged evidence? What are you talking about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill Cosby
What, would you say, is the key difference between Hamas, a terrorist organization, and Israel regarding the way in which they conduct combat?
Israel was barraged by rockets for how many months? Israel targets the terrorists and their assets, avoiding civilian casualties using an unprecedented system of informing civilians. Hamas targets civilians and Israel tries to avoid civilians. This is all more than obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill Cosby
I don't mean intent, nor who is at fault and causing the other to retaliate, (as that is the whole core of the debate, with many on each side) but their ACTUAL method of combat. The way they attack the other side, the residual cost of each attack. I find it fairly interesting that there really doesn't seem to be too much of a difference.
I think you are beyond confused, seriously. You think this is even a debate or worthy of a post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill Cosby
What is it that DEFINES Hamas as a terrorist group? And do you find it interesting that in the name if a seemingly nobler cause, Israel is guilty of many of the same things?
Holocaust denier is one of those ultra-loaded terms like anti-semite that is often used to silence criticisms.
Because it's difficult to call a Rabbi an anti-semite with a straight face, 'self-loathing jew', 'radical leftist' or 'holocaust denier' is usually the go-to.
How many people do you think you fool with this nonsense?
I think it is telling when the about section of the video calls Israel a terrorist state, which is BS.
This guy is brutal and to use him for quotes is silly. He has though tried to 'clear the air' yet he has done the damage he has done. He changed his ways a bit after his attendance at this conference in Iran to 'chat' about the holocaust:
You posted a video that has an about section claiming Israel is a terrorist state, I should ignore that? This is exactly what you posted. I asked what your thoughts were.
This is a minefield and you can see how quickly some sources are hateful 'below the surface'.
No, actually I never posted what the guy who posted the youtube clip wrote on here. As you can see I embedded the video which would not show the "about" section which I have never in my life read.
Your question was a typical "When did you stop beating your wife" loaded question and is irrelevant to the video I posted.
I posted the Rabbi's thoughts. A Jewish Rabbi is hateful towards Israel? That tells me a lot.
How many people do you think you fool with this nonsense?
I think it is telling when the about section of the video calls Israel a terrorist state, which is BS.
You do realize the guy who posted the video and the Rabbi who speaks in the video are not affiliated at all? How are you even trying to relate the two?
