Considering relocating to Kelowna

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Big deal, if you ever attend the oil and gas show you'll see dozens of multinationals recruiting for tax free overseas positions. Shell isn't the only gig in town. Sure beats the money isn't everything crowd, that crows about how people make too much in this town so everyone should slum it because money makes you a prisoner.

Well that's swell then. Perhaps the OP should go to this show, get a job with some other huge company and take a position.

[Codes]

I grew up in Kelowna, well more precisely, on the Westside. It was a great place to grow up. As others have mentioned, there are 4 seasons, it isn't as cold in the winter (but it can be for short spells), and the summers tend to be long and hot (with a constant threat of forest fire).

I haven't lived there as an adult, so I can't give you much detail on the financial side of things, other than it's not cheap place to live. Houses are a little cheaper, can't comment on property taxes, but things are more expensive with the extra taxes, especially gas. I think insurance is more expensive. Seems like hydro is a lot cheaper just comparing my bill with that of my parents. Anyway, that's anecdotal.

Summer is awesome. Got the lake right there, easy access to camping. But it is VERY busy. It's still a pain in the ass getting across the new bridge at certain times of the day, or if there is any kind of traffic problem. The winter is great if you are into winter sports. However, it tends to be very gloomy; the valley is often socked in, which reflects off the lake, and combined with the burnt mountains, there's not a lot of colour. So if you require sunshine, that is a major detractor.

Someone mentioned hostility towards Alberta/Albertans...that's kinda true it seems.

Sometimes lost in all this is Kelowna is still a relatively small city. And if you're one of those people that enjoy a really diverse city life, Kelowna might get a bit boring. Culturally/politically, Kelowna and area on a scale is closer to Calgary than Vancouver, IMO.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by fotze

It was just another potential outcome to but it doesn't sound nearly as exotic as your trademarked and ridiculous longing for the Christopher McCandless/Joey Tribbiani lifestyle that for some bizarre reason still has you residing in this awful place full of awful people chasing consumerism. If anyone should be taking your direction of moving to chase a better lifestyle it should be you.

No one says one their deathbed "glad I took the job with the government", unless I guess you get terminal cancer at 29 and it was 6 months earlier you took the job and you qualify for some wicked pension for your parents.

Lol. What?

I like my lifestyle and I don't make a lot of money. Why are you telling me to change it?

I'm telling the OP to consider the move, not just throw out the idea. Not an unreasonable suggestion.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by fotze

No one says one their deathbed "glad I took the job with the government", unless I guess you get terminal cancer at 29 and it was 6 months earlier you took the job and you qualify for some wicked pension for your parents.

Dude, this isn't about the quality of his job, it's about him making a long-term move to the Okanagan with his family where his job is only one factor. What part of that don't you understand?

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Red John

There are a few myths being propagated about Kelowna winters here.

First of all, don't let anyone downplay the difference in climate between the two cities and say that Kelowna is only a bit warmer. It's WAY warmer...like night and day.

-15 during the coldest part of winter compared to -40 in Calgary. It's a huge difference. And most of the time it's around the freezing mark which is pretty manageable.

Also, the words "spring" and "autumn" are only technical terms in Calgary - those seasons don't really exist. Kelowna actually has 4 seasons and they are all very beautiful. Usually snow doesn't hit until January.

Finally, those who talk about 6 months of clouds in the winter clearly have never spent a winter in Kelowna. Mornings tend to be pretty socked in but clouds usually disappear in the afternoon and yes, the sun does shine in the Okanagan during the winter, just not nearly as much as in summer. But it's hardly a Vancouver climate where you can go weeks without seeing the sun.

It's worse. From November to February Kelowna averages only 206 hours of sunshine. Vancouver which is considered one of the dreariest places around in those months gets 268 hours in the same time period and a place like Victoria gets 320 hours. Only about 14% of daylight hours in December and January in Kelowna are sunny. Not to mention the average daily high temperatures you see in Kelowna in those months are around what the average lows on the coast are.

[Red Slinger]

I haven't read the whole thread so my apologies if this has been covered.

About 3 years ago I got a very good job offer and moved from Calgary to Perth, Australia. The weather here is great, there are lots of things to do and see and there are enormous travel opportunities to SE Asia and other parts of the region. So, I've enjoyed that aspect of it tremendously. However, my job has been somewhat soul crushing.

We spend more time at work than anywhere else so job satisfaction is really important. It doesn't matter how nice the weather is, how good the beach is or how much you like golfing. If you're miserable at work it casts a shadow over everything else.

With that said, if you're confident that you can return to a decent job in Calgary if things don't work out than you should probably try it and see how it goes. As a matter of fact I'm coming home this weekend.

[troutman]

Forgot to mention - Kelowna is firmly part of Canuck Nation. Ewwwww.

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by troutman

Forgot to mention - Kelowna is firmly part of Canuck Nation. Ewwwww.

i am the "red" light in the sea of gloomy blue and green!

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by nik-

Significantly higher in Calgary, but not double.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...&city2=Calgary

A lot of numbers there, but the important parts are the top green long box and the blue box.

Do you know where they get that data? It seems pretty unlikely to me that their "average vw car" costs 11% more in Calgary to purchase than it would to buy it in Kelowna. It seems much more likely that it would cost exactly the same except for not paying PST. I know all my BC relatives come to AB to shop, so I'd be surprised if most stuff was cheaper in BC after factoring in the extra tax.

Real estate is obviously an exception, I'm not surprised an apartment in downtown kelowna is much cheaper to buy than an apartment in downtown calgary.

[Johnny199r]

I've been in a similar situation.

I moved from northern manitoba to edmonton last year. I made over $250k my last year in private practice and moved to govt where I now only make 112k at the age of 31.

I grappled with the money, but I have very cheap tastes and have been told that I live like I am on welfare. I went from being stuck in the wilderness with nothing to do in mb to being able to be in the rockies in a few hours, drive a few minutes to an airport, ride my bicycle, go to restaurants etc.

I have 7 weeks of vacation, which will go up to 8 weeks in 4 years and then go up a week every 7-8 years. I used to work 7 days a week, and in my new job will never ever work a night or weekend.

What I'm trying to say is, do you really need the 1% money? What do you do with it that makes you happy? Does your wife work? If I'm honest, i don't have expensive tastes and could never spend it all. Even now, I save just about everything after rent, car insurance and food. I like having things to do now.

My spouse and I will each eventually max out at 180k per year, with 3 months of vacation a year plus a pension and benefits. We never work more than 40 hours a week and never will. That's good enough for me. Even if I had more money I wouldn't buy a bigger house or an expensive car, it would just sit in my bank account.

[bizaro86]

Interesting job > Boring Job
More Money > Less Money
Warm Weather > Cold Weather
Lake Okanagan > Lake Bonavista

I think that pretty much covers it, ultimately it's up to the OP to decide which factors are more important to him.

I'm in a similar-ish place in life, and am seriously considering whether I need to apply to work in Australia before I lose the ability to get the <30 visa. Having kid(s) makes it more challenging to move for sure. Losing grandparents babysitting is a big loss, imo.

Also, how is your wife going to feel about uprooting again if you decide working for the gov't is destroying your will to live after a few years?

[Minnie]

My apologies if this has been covered already, in the past 119 posts. I guess I'm looking at this from a mother's perspective. You have 3 very young children. Whilst that might make the move easier, and their adjustment somewhat easier (not always, obviously), they are very young. You know that you're taking a pay decrease and in light of that, your wife is considering opening a bed and breakfast - one presumes in order to make up the anticipated shortfall.

A B&B is a helluva lot of work (thanks, Tips) - and your children are very young and require a lot of attention. There's going to be a lot of competition for your wife's time between the children and the B&B business. She's already essentially involved around the clock with the childcare - the B&B is going to add a rather large burden to her shoulders. The free time you think you'll have (and want) will be consumed with the B&B.

Good luck with your decision. It wouldn't be the decision I would make based on the things you've outlined and a young family, but regardless of what direction you choose, all the very best to your family.

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by Codes

I grew up in Kelowna, well more precisely, on the Westside. It was a great place to grow up. As others have mentioned, there are 4 seasons, it isn't as cold in the winter (but it can be for short spells), and the summers tend to be long and hot (with a constant threat of forest fire).

I haven't lived there as an adult, so I can't give you much detail on the financial side of things, other than it's not cheap place to live. Houses are a little cheaper, can't comment on property taxes, but things are more expensive with the extra taxes, especially gas. I think insurance is more expensive. Seems like hydro is a lot cheaper just comparing my bill with that of my parents. Anyway, that's anecdotal.

Summer is awesome. Got the lake right there, easy access to camping. But it is VERY busy. It's still a pain in the ass getting across the new bridge at certain times of the day, or if there is any kind of traffic problem. The winter is great if you are into winter sports. However, it tends to be very gloomy; the valley is often socked in, which reflects off the lake, and combined with the burnt mountains, there's not a lot of colour. So if you require sunshine, that is a major detractor.

Someone mentioned hostility towards Alberta/Albertans...that's kinda true it seems.

Sometimes lost in all this is Kelowna is still a relatively small city. And if you're one of those people that enjoy a really diverse city life, Kelowna might get a bit boring. Culturally/politically, Kelowna and area on a scale is closer to Calgary than Vancouver, IMO.

Codes - i agree with a bunch of what you said, but this i don't...

However, it tends to be very gloomy; the valley is often socked in, which reflects off the lake, and combined with the burnt mountains, there's not a lot of colour

have you been back to kelowna since the fires of 2003?? those mountains are green again... have been for a number of years. yes the valley gets socked in with clouds, but that's just part of life - it doesn't really bother me.

to the OP...

i think the weather in kelowna is awesome. sure, right now it's stinkin' hot (we're in mid-high 30s), but spring and fall are soooooo nice. we didn't need to turn on the a/c until early july this year! it will be on most of july/august and then back to cooler temps. i recall reading one of the threads here this past winter when many were going on and on about the crappy winter in calgary (and from what i read - i don't blame you one bit!). this past winter i shoveled my driveway twice... that was it (and i'm one of those people that HATES driving over/packing down snow on their driveway). most of the days it snowed the temp got back up above zero and just melted the snow away.

a couple of posters have mentioned a huge gang/drug/homeless problem in kelowna. maybe i live under a rock and don't get out much, but i honestly don't see much of this. sure, i know a few of the guys from hockey that like to smoke up before/after a game, but most of the guys i know take 'beer league' to heart!

traffic can be bad... but that's true of pretty much anywhere... i've driven/crawled down deerfoot when there is an accident... just like kelowna. there was an announcement a week or so ago that kelowna could have a second crossing to the westside within 8 years... but i'm not holding my breath! ha! ha!

one thing that i do think kelowna is really lacking is 'culture'. on many of my visits to calgary there have been awesome festivals going on, which are always a blast to take in. maybe kelowna isn't big enough yet for that stuff?

i've lived in kelowna since 1986 (we moved here from southern ontario when i was 13). i love it. my wife and i have talked about moving away but each time we discuss it we just don't know where else we'd want to be - it's a great place to live.... even though we are surrounded by canuck fans

oh... and my door is always open for flames & stamps games!

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Interesting job > Boring Job
More Money > Less Money
Warm Weather > Cold Weather
Lake Okanagan > Lake Bonavista

I think that pretty much covers it, ultimately it's up to the OP to decide which factors are more important to him.

I'm in a similar-ish place in life, and am seriously considering whether I need to apply to work in Australia before I lose the ability to get the <30 visa. Having kid(s) makes it more challenging to move for sure. Losing grandparents babysitting is a big loss, imo.

Also, how is your wife going to feel about uprooting again if you decide working for the gov't is destroying your will to live after a few years?

If you think you can make it happen and you can get the visa, definitely do it!! I saw parents travelling with kids when I backpacking and they looked like they were having a great time. Australia is a great place to raise a family. Definitely apply for the visa and sew if you and your wife can get it!!

[redforever]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Interesting job > Boring Job
More Money > Less Money
Warm Weather > Cold Weather
Lake Okanagan > Lake Bonavista

I think that pretty much covers it, ultimately it's up to the OP to decide which factors are more important to him.

I'm in a similar-ish place in life, and am seriously considering whether I need to apply to work in Australia before I lose the ability to get the <30 visa. Having kid(s) makes it more challenging to move for sure. Losing grandparents babysitting is a big loss, imo.

Also, how is your wife going to feel about uprooting again if you decide working for the gov't is destroying your will to live after a few years?

It's not just the babysitting that will be lost. It is the close relationship your children probably have with their grandparents right now that will be lost.

I know. I grew up in Saskatchewan, living with one set of grandparents until I was 6, and living only 6 miles from the other set of grandparents.

We moved to Alberta, fresh out of university, our kids were born here etc.

Calgary is close to 10 hours driving time to where I grew up in Saskatchewan. Yeah, we visited a couple of times a year but our children simply never had the same relationship with their grandparents like I did.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

My spouse and I will each eventually max out at 180k per year, with 3 months of vacation a year plus a pension and benefits.

Not your fault, and I'd take it if it was offered, but how is 3 months of vacation even a thing that government gives its employees? Thats 12 weeks. A quarter of the year. Even the French would think that's grossly excessive.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

I moved from northern manitoba to edmonton last year. I made over $250k my last year in private practice and moved to govt where I now only make 112k at the age of 31.

[Codes]

Originally Posted by bc-chris

have you been back to kelowna since the fires of 2003?? those mountains are green again... have been for a number of years. yes the valley gets socked in with clouds, but that's just part of life - it doesn't really bother me.

bc-chris,

Yes, I usually make it back every summer and winter (my parents still live there). To be fair, you aren't wrong - it depends on your view. My parents live in Rose Valley, and their view overlooks Westbank and across the lake. I would argue the mountains are still relatively barren directly across from the Westside and Peachland, but that could also be due to the fact that the mountains themselves are fairly steep there, and trees don't easily grow. It's still a little barren in the Gellatly/Glenrosa area from that fire a few years ago. But, if I look behind their house into the mountains of Rose Valley, you are right - very beautiful with tons of greenery (and whitery...heh...when it snows).

Anyway, for me, I really like sunshine, and I personally find it lacking during winter time in the Okanagan. But, as you pointed out, that is not a factor that is important to everyone.

Hope to be coming back in the next couple of weeks!

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Not your fault, and I'd take it if it was offered, but how is 3 months of vacation even a thing that government gives its employees? Thats 12 weeks. A quarter of the year. Even the French would think that's grossly excessive.

Not only does the new AUPE contract lower the years of service from 7 to 5 in order to earn additional vacation time, we now get from Xmas to New Years off, paid, without it counting towards vacation. This province is ridiculous.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Not only does the new AUPE contract lower the years of service from 7 to 5 in order to earn additional vacation time, we now get from Xmas to New Years off, paid, without it counting towards vacation. This province is ridiculous.

So... what is it that you do where you only make $112K a year? That type of pay cut seems like it'd be very difficult to live off of.