The Cammalleri non-trade

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Parallex

None of which he will be providing for us. I'd gladly take a 3rd or 4th round pick for 20 games worth of everything that Mike Cammellari provides in a season where missing the playoffs is a foregone conclusion.

He did provide that for us. Burke obviously thought having him on the team plus the heightened chance that he re-signs was enough to forgo a mid-round pick.

Either way, it's not even worth freting about. We have no idea what Cammalleri was worth to the team or what the affect of not dumping him for anything they could get is. If some GM had came out after and said he offered a 2nd or something better it might be a discussion, but it's all pretty much a wash at this point.

[Jables16]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Would Bolig for 3rd count as being a patsy?

What a fool Treliving was to trade our magic beans third rounder for an established NHL player. There's a 12 percent chance that pick could grow into an NHL player. Heck, it could be the next Brandon Bollig! I've never seen someone get fleeced so bad.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

The Flames had a good thing going, despite the poor results in the standings.

I think Cammy was worth a late first or early second at the deadline, and for that price it would totally be worth moving him. But the Flames got stung by probably the worst deadline market for scoring wingers I can ever remember seeing.

And if the only offers on the table were late round picks, I don't think it was worth breaking up the chemistry the Flames had going.

Fans always overvalue picks, but a late round pick is worth about the $125 waiver wire fee (or whatever it is these days). Because you're more likely to snag a gem of a player off waivers than you are at 147th overall. Especially if you suck and are at the top of the waiver order.

The best thing the Flames had going last year was the hard-working corporate culture that was evident to everyone who saw them. I think Cammy was a big part of that, and I don't think it was worth breaking up that locker room for a throw-away lottery ticket of a draft pick.

I would actually have to disagree with you about a good thing going, aside from a 5 game winning streak(in which Cammy only played 1 game) this team looked pretty bad during those months, and didn't have as many close games as you would like to think.

In the 15GP perior to the deadline with Cammy in the lineup(Injured from Jan 13 until Jan 31) the Flames were shut out 7 times! In fact they only scored more than 2 goals on 3 occasions! And only three of those games were one goal games. Their record was 4-11-0 during that stretch.

Spoiler!

• EDM 2-0L
• VAN 2-0L
• PHI 4-1L
• TBL 2-0L
• COL 4-3W
• PHX 6-0L
• STL 5-0L
• PIT 2-1L
• MIN 4-3W
• MTL 2-0L
• NYI 4-2W
• PHI 2-1L
• LAK 2-0L
• EDM 2-1W
• MIN 3-2L

The team really came together only after the deadline, and that's when Cammy heated up! What I am trying to say is that Cammy was simply too great of a risk for a GM on the trade deadline for a late first.

[sharkov]

I thought we could have traded for negotiation rights. Other than that meh

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Except that Burke was only the interim GM... him holding firm and getting nothing did nothing to promote the Flames interests. He mucked it up, any post-hoc excuses he makes are just that... excuses.

So Burke, being the President of Hockey Operations in Calgary, creating an atmosphere of holding firm, and wanting the same from his GM, will do nothing to promote the Flames' interests? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I'm also guessing you think Burke will have absolutely no influence on how trades happen in the future.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Burke obviously thought having him on the team plus the heightened chance that he re-signs was enough to forgo a mid-round pick.

Maybe he thought that or maybe Burke just kept on waiting and as a result he just ended up without a dance partner and all the excuses he makes are just him massaging his own ego by refusing to acknowledge that he made a mistake.

Even if that's what he legitimately thought, the question remains as to whether that was wise thinking and IMO it was not.

Originally Posted by squiggs96

So Burke, being the President of Hockey Operations in Calgary, creating an atmosphere of holding firm, and wanting the same from his GM, will do nothing to promote the Flames' interests? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

So you think Burke electing to not not take the best deal on the table and walk away with nothing in the end promotes the Flames interests? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Jables16

What a fool Treliving was to trade our magic beans third rounder for an established NHL player. There's a 12 percent chance that pick could grow into an NHL player. Heck, it could be the next Brandon Bollig! I've never seen someone get fleeced so bad.

The question is, did Treliving overpay for a 4th line player? And the answer is that he did. So, the perception from this would be that Flames value big players and are willing to overpay. As for the % chances, we all know what they are, and we also know you can get Johnny with a 4th rounder.

[Hackey]

How do you know that Burke didn't try to deal Cammy before the deadline but the offers wern't there? Maybe teams wanted to wait to try and land their first option or see where other players landed. Pretty naive to assume that teams were willing to pay more before hand. And obviously no GM's knew the market would be that bad otherwise they wouldn't have waited till the deadline either.

[ResAlien]

What I'm curious about is was this simply a legacy defining moment for Burke or a franchise defining moment for the entire organization?

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by theoforever

The question is, did Treliving overpay for a 4th line player? And the answer is that he did. So, the perception from this would be that Flames value big players and are willing to overpay. As for the % chances, we all know what they are, and we also know you can get Johnny with a 4th rounder.

The answer is that he did not.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by theoforever

The question is, did Treliving overpay for a 4th line player? And the answer is that he did. So, the perception from this would be that Flames value big players and are willing to overpay. As for the % chances, we all know what they are, and we also know you can get Johnny with a 4th rounder.

So Vancouver overpaid for Dorsett as well I suppose, or that's the going rate for a physical 3/4th line W that can play a regular shift.

As others have mentioned, our scouting staff thought so much of the prospects available at the Pittsburgh pick that they traded the pick away. Obviously they see something in Hickey and were comfortable with him as a prospect that they didn't see the need to use the pick.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Maybe he thought that or maybe Burke just kept on waiting and as a result he just ended up without a dance partner and all the excuses he makes are just him massaging his own ego by refusing to acknowledge that he made a mistake.

Even if that's what he legitimately thought, the question remains as to whether that was wise thinking and IMO it was not.

Well if we're just going to assume he's lying purely for stroking his ego, we can have a lot more fun. Maybe he didn't get any offers at all (which is essentially what offering a mid-round pick for a top line winger, likely at a reduced salary, actually is). Maybe Burke was offered Kesler for Cammy straight up but declined. Maybe Maloney offered Gormley under the condition that we didn't take Treliving. Man all these hypothetical scenarios, which one was the most egregious error by Burke? Let's choose that one and make it a reality.

Make believe is fun.

Originally Posted by Parallex

So you think Burke electing to not not take the best deal on the table and walk away with nothing in the end promotes the Flames interests? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Again, we weren't left with nothing. We had a couple more months of Cammy, a more competitive team, and negotiating rights to one of the top free-agent wingers. Whether those things are worth keeping vs the possible return is obviously debatable. But those are things, and things are not nothing.

[dino7c]

guy played terrible before the deadline, really don't think he was in demand

his new contract is a disaster

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Make believe is fun.

All those people make believing that Burke didn't screw it up must think so.

[Yoho]

Lou's days are numbered in New Jersey, this graveyard of has been's he's collecting are just standing in the shadows of a Tsunami before the other NHL franchises hit.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Parallex

All those people make believing that Burke didn't screw it up must think so.

When only 1 or 2 posters in this entire thread share your view maybe your just wrong.

[Jables16]

[QUOTE=theoforever;4845975]The question is, did Treliving overpay for a 4th line player? And the answer is that he did. So, the perception from this would be that Flames value big players and are willing to overpay. As for the % chances, we all know what they are, and we also know you can get Johnny with a 4th rounder.[/QUOTE]

The only bad thing about drafting Gaudreau in the fourth round is that now everytime we trade away a 3-7th round pick, someone will inevitably say "Oh GREAT! That could've been the next Gaudreau!" I predict this will be the next "Jankowski Rule" in terms of its inevitable inclusion in most threads.

I'm not saying that it's an incredible trade or that he couldn't have possibly been had for a later pick or less, just that the hysteria over trading a third round pick verges on comical. It's simply not a high percentage chance that the pick will become anything of consequence. I'm guessing they felt comfortable trading a third rounder since we had a top 5 first, two seconds, and a third already and saw an opportunity to add size and TRUCULENCE.

[Hackey]

Every time we trade away a 6th we should say that could have been Datsyuk.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Parallex

All those people make believing that Burke didn't screw it up must think so.

Argue all you want about whether or not it was worth it, that's all fine and dandy. But making up a scenario just to try and make your point stronger is just not how reality works.

Nope Kevin Bacon was not in Footloose.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I would actually have to disagree with you about a good thing going, aside from a 5 game winning streak(in which Cammy only played 1 game) this team looked pretty bad during those months, and didn't have as many close games as you would like to think.

In the 15GP perior to the deadline with Cammy in the lineup(Injured from Jan 13 until Jan 31) the Flames were shut out 7 times! In fact they only scored more than 2 goals on 3 occasions! And only three of those games were one goal games. Their record was 4-11-0 during that stretch.

Spoiler!

• EDM 2-0L
• VAN 2-0L
• PHI 4-1L
• TBL 2-0L
• COL 4-3W
• PHX 6-0L
• STL 5-0L
• PIT 2-1L
• MIN 4-3W
• MTL 2-0L
• NYI 4-2W
• PHI 2-1L
• LAK 2-0L
• EDM 2-1W
• MIN 3-2L

The team really came together only after the deadline, and that's when Cammy heated up! What I am trying to say is that Cammy was simply too great of a risk for a GM on the trade deadline for a late first.

It's not about whether you win or lose (especially for a rebuilding team), its how you play the game.

And I liked the way they lost games this year, more than I liked how they won games the 2 or 3 seasons before that.

They were losing the right way, and I think Cammalleri had a role to play in that.

Just my take.