Like I said earlier in this thread, this narrative that everything is fine and dandy for the Palestinians when they're not firing rockets is just not true. Their land, resources,and money is all targeted by Israel even during "peaceful" times.
P.S. I hope your daughter and grand kids stay safe.
Thanks for that, they are safe right now as they are visiting us for a few weeks. Son in law is supposed to be coming in a week but he might get called up and have to cancel. Thankfully he's not regular army otherwise he would probably already have been called up. Some of his close friends, who we've met on our visits there, already have so these things hit close to home for us.
As for the rest of your post, I don't agree with every policy or everything Israel does, but I understand the desire to protect themselves in this particular situation. I do feel that the Palestinians are getting caught in the middle and are used as pawns, and acknowledge that they get royally screwed from both sides.
I also feel however that mostly Hamas is responsible by using the Palestinians as human shields. They know if they keep pushing that eventually Israel will respond. They count on that. They station the rocket launchers beside schools and hospitals. They themselves hide amongst the civilians.
The biggest difference to me between the Israelis and the group they are fighting is at least Israel cares about somebody, their own people. Same thing can't be said about Hamas.
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For anyone curious, this is what a forced eviction of Palestinian families looks like:
(I can do that too)
Here is Israel evicting Jewish/Israeli families.
They must just want everyone to be homeless in the desert.
Again, settlements are a red herring - Israel has proven that they will dismantle settlements, not just for peace, but for the HOPE of peace (and under right-wing "Hawk" Prime Ministers, too). After leaving Gaza & getting rockets & mortars, I don't think Israel will just leave the WB without a signed, enforceable treaty.
They must just want everyone to be homeless in the desert.
Again, settlements are a red herring - Israel has proven that they will dismantle settlements, not just for peace, but for the HOPE of peace (and under right-wing "Hawk" Prime Ministers, too). After leaving Gaza & getting rockets & mortars, I don't think Israel will just leave the WB without a signed, enforceable treaty.
Are you kidding me?
When Israelis are removed from their homes, they're resettled in a nearby village and compensated heavily for the inconvenience. Israelis being removed from their homes is a slight inconvenience, but at the end, they usually end up wealthier than they were before.
When Palestinians are forced out of their homes, they're told their home is illegal. They're pulled out, sometimes beaten and arrested and they don't see a single dime for the inconvenience. For all intents and purposes they become homeless.
Plus one is illegal and a detriment to peace. The other is just following international law.
Wait, looks like they investigated and caught them....
So to summarize:
3 Israeli deaths Hamas supports and praises the killers
1 Palestintian death Israel condems the actions and finds the responsible.
We'll see. Many times Israel arrests people and then releases them once the heat is off. Also, they demolished the homes of the Palestinians who were suspected of killing the 3 Israelis, so shouldn't the same punishment apply to their own citizens who are suspected? And, speaking of praising murder.....
"The political climate in Israel is so ugly that at least one member of Knesset is comparing Palestinian children to “little snakes”—and announcing that she’s ready to declare war on the entire Palestinian population."
We'll see. Many times Israel arrests people and then releases them once the heat is off. Also, they demolished the homes of the Palestinians who were suspected of killing the 3 Israelis, so shouldn't the same punishment apply to their own citizens who are suspected? And, speaking of praising murder.....
"The political climate in Israel is so ugly that at least one member of Knesset is comparing Palestinian children to “little snakes”—and announcing that she’s ready to declare war on the entire Palestinian population."
We'll see. Many times Israel arrests people and then releases them once the heat is off. Also, they demolished the homes of the Palestinians who were suspected of killing the 3 Israelis, so shouldn't the same punishment apply to their own citizens who are suspected? And, speaking of praising murder.....
"The political climate in Israel is so ugly that at least one member of Knesset is comparing Palestinian children to “little snakes”—and announcing that she’s ready to declare war on the entire Palestinian population."
Ayelet Shaked represents the far-right Jewish Home party in the Knesset. This means she is well to the right of Benyamin Netanyahu, just in case you thought such a thing was not possible.
She is a far right extremist......I am not to suprised by her comments.
Saying she is a good representation of all Israel's view is foolish. She is a vocal extremist, that is not representative of all politians in Israel, whereas Khaled Mashaal is the leader of Hamas.
Both peoples have crazy extremists, the difference is Mashaal is in charge of Hamas, Shaked isn't in charge of Israel.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
She is a far right extremist......I am not to suprised by her comments.
Saying she is a good representation of all Israel's view is foolish. She is a vocal extremist, that is not representative of all politians in Israel, whereas Khaled Mashaal is the leader of Hamas.
Both peoples have crazy extremists, the difference is Mashaal is in charge of Hamas, Shaked isn't in charge of Israel.
Well it's not like her party preaches love and peace either:
As the descendant of the National Religious Party, the Jewish Home is willing to cooperate with secular Israelis in governing the state, but it has not forgone its objective of creating a polity governed by Jewish law. The party's members adhere to the belief that Jews are divinely commanded to retain control over the Land of Israel. Many members have taken the lead in establishing Israeli settlements,[5] making it nearly impossible for the party to join a coalition led by the center-left political bloc.[17]
They sound like the Israeli equivalent of Hamas and have 12 seats in the Kenesset.
I don't disagree, but unlike Hamas (who are running the show, so to speak) they have 12 of 120 seats.......
Almost looks like they are on the fringe, unlike Hamas.
That's 10% and form a sizeable chunk of the ruling 68 member coalition (Israeli politics work differently than Canada's where coalition governments are formed between rival parties). That's only 8 less seats than Netanyahu's Likud party.
The Jewish Home party's leader, Naftali Bennett who is currently Israel's Minister of Industry, isn't much better than Shaked either
No more “painful compromises,” no more “there is no partner for peace,” no more “Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East,” no more flaccid proclamations of a “two-state solution.” There will be no “painful compromises.” There will be no compromises at all. And it is not because of the Palestinians. If Mahatma Gandhi returned and was democratically elected as president of the Palestinian Authority, it would not matter. If the Palestinian government became like Canada it would not matter. There will be no Palestinian state. There is no peace process, and the fault does not lie solely with Palestinian behavior. Why? Because, as Mr. Bennett says openly, “The land is ours.” Period. There is no fervent messianism like that of the settler rabbis, no secular militarism like that of Zeev Jabotinsky. The land belongs to the Jews. Take a deep breath and repeat.
His idea of how to create peace is to Anex Area C, which comprises 68% of the West Bank and transfer control of the remainder to the Palestinian Authority thus creating South Africa style Bantustans.
Truly scary stuff!
My point with all of this is, in a liberal democracy, parties like this don't exist. They wouldn't have much of a following are are generally illegal. In Israeli style democracy, these parties aren't just legal, but are included in a coalition.
^ In a real liberal democracy you have all sorts of voices including those that may be extreme and even crazy. That's the rub with a true democracy. You can't just silence voices that you disagree with. Otherwise, it's no longer a democracy. There are members of the Tea Party in the US that aren't far off this level of crazy BTW. This doesn't represent Israel, the Israeli people NOR Israeli policy. The irony is that many, if not most, of the extreme Israeli right-wingers, Zionists and illegal settlers are Americans.
Israel is no hero in this debacle. Their are a lot of right-wingers and even extreme right-wingers that are given voice because of the parliamentary system they have in place, as mentioned. This often leads to issues like illegal settlements which do nothing but inflame the situation. However, the policy of the government of Israel has NEVER been to eradicate the Palestinians. Compare that with the policy of the the elected Hamas government in Gaza who's charter is anchored around the destruction of Israel. Peace is a non-starter as long as Hamas is around.
There are really 3 or 4 major players in the region. If you follow the logic and ask "what is their end goal" I think the results are interesting.
1) The state of Israel.
End goal: Safe and secure borders where Israelis aren't under constant threat of attack and death.
2) Palestinian people.
End goal: A home that they can call their own. Freedom from oppression.
3) Surrounding Arab states.
End goal: Eradicating the threat of liberal democracies to their dictatorships. AKA the destruction of Israel.
4) The West (mostly the US)
End goal: A strategic foothold in the region for military and economic purposes.
At least one of these four(surrounding Arab states) actively works against the peace process through their proxy's of Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terrorist organizations. The US and the West sometimes works as a destabilizer (Bush Jr., Reagan) and sometimes as a stabilizing force in the region (Clinton). The other two groups, Israeli and the Palestinians, basically just want to be left alone in peace.
If you were Israel what would you do? I think the first step is to stop/remove the settlements and secure the borders. Beyond that, I'm not sure what else can be done until those that want to destroy you no longer want to destroy you.
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The of and to a in is I that it for you was with on as have but be they
Well seeing how young they are, it tells me that Hamas aren't the only ones preaching hate in that part of the world.
It appears to me that Hamas is probably better at recruiting Israelis to the Israeli cause than anyone. Being under constant threat by a terrorist group that allies itself with the Palestinians sure doesn't help the Palestinians. But Hamas doesn't give a rats ass. The more casualties that pile up the better, as far as they are concerned.
Also for what it's worth, I know many Israelis that are in or were in the army. Not one of them shares the misguided opinions of those tweets. They all want peace, just like most Palestinians.
