[News] Weisbroad named VP player personnel in Vancouver

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by FAN

I was not one who loved Weisbrod and I am not about to begin now. I don't get where this whole "nobody knew what he did" thing comes from and why it's used as a slight against Weisbrod. It's like suddenly Flames fans forget they ever heard Weisbrod's name get mentioned or heard his interviews. Weisbrod was Feaster's AGM. He reported only to Jay. Jay wanted Weisbrod to be the guy scouting for him and giving him recommendations on players. If someone like Conroy didn't know what Weisbrod did then so be it. Did nobody listen to Jay's interviews in his time here? It's frequently John told him this John told him that and here we somehow prefer to belief that nobody knew what he did and therefore he did nothing? Did nobody catch the fact that Weisbrod ran the farm team with Conroy before Conroy took over?

I don't know how you missed this considering it was mentioned many, many times in this thread. But it came from Brian Burke's own mouth.

[Tinordi]

I still contend Weisbrod was canned largely for that whole Jankowski thing. Burke insinuated as such when he said he wasn't happy about the drafting when he let both guys go. Looking at the draft records, there actually wasn't alot to be unhappy about besides that pick. The fact that Todd Button is still around speaks to how much involvement he had in that process.

I mean, in a way, I respect Weisbrod for wearing that pick. He made it clear it was on him, he didn't hide from it. Hopefully Weisbrod picks more Jankowskis at the cost of Teravainens and Girgensons for Vancouver.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well if he did, he didn't do a very good job of it because Conroy was brought in due to a disconnect and a lack of communication between Calgary and Abbottsford.

That is your own conclusion and you keep bringing that up even when others have proven you wrong. This was a move made by Feaster and he explained that this was to give Conroy more day to day management experience (we have frequently discussed that Conroy was being groomed) and for Weisbrod to concentrate on the Flames. This isn't anything out of the ordinary. Under Burke, Poulin replaced Nonis as the GM of the Marlies. I think it is safe to assume that Burke didn't do that because he felt Nonis did a poor job.

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

My point is that outside of 2005-2006, you don't see a huge change in drafting "philosophy" .... you see changes, I'm sure, but technology advances, tools become available, etc... this isn't one particular thing that one guy does. The whole drafting "philosophy" that was re-vamped, well there is no real evidence to show there was a massive change.

But a greater reliance on technology such as PUCKS is a change brought on by Feaster. So by extension, if a GM decides that the team is going to make greater use of technology in their scouting, that's a direct impact made to a team's drafting by the GM.

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I don't know how you missed this considering it was mentioned many, many times in this thread. But it came from Brian Burke's own mouth.

I honestly just read it from posters. Not really sure if it was a direct quote. Can you link me?

Personally, I just find it silly that Burke would not know what Weisbrod did and couldn't find out. But it is possible that Feaster didn't define roles all that well. Conroy himself said he was given a lot of responsibility by Feaster and Weisbrod and pretty much did everything. I find it interesting that Conroy would say that after Feaster and Weisbrod was let go suddenly everyone had more to do. If Weisbrod didn't do anything, then surely Burke could have temporarily took over Feaster's responsibilities adequately? Regardless, my point is that this shouldn't be any slight on Weisbrod. He's the AGM. Just like the role of Special Assistant to the GM, their roles and responsibilities should be defined by the GM. Weisbrod was clearly Feaster's right hand man and trusted advisor.

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I still contend Weisbrod was canned largely for that whole Jankowski thing. Burke insinuated as such when he said he wasn't happy about the drafting when he let both guys go.

...

I mean, in a way, I respect Weisbrod for wearing that pick. He made it clear it was on him, he didn't hide from it. Hopefully Weisbrod picks more Jankowskis at the cost of Teravainens and Girgensons for Vancouver.

To be fair, it was also about trading down, picking up a 2nd, and drafting Jankowski.

[SHOGUN]

The verdict is still out on whether Jankowski will be a better than the prospects who passed on... we could of had Olli Maatta which is probably one of best D men in that draft class.

[Lanny_McDonald]

It's unfortunate that Jankowski has been held back from development camp, because I firmly believe all the hand wringing would disappear when viewed against his peers. People would be raving about his skill and lumping him in with Gaudreau and Bennett as the best players at camp. This decision to hold him back is probably best for his injury, but poorly timed for calming the fans down.

[Erick Estrada]

Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread but does this mean that Vancouver is a possible trade destination for Jankowski? If Weisbrod isn't putting the bug in Benning's ear then that's all you have to know about whether he realizes it was a mistake or still has conviction that he's going to be Joe Nieuwendyk. From a Flames point of view I surely wouldn't give him away for Shinkaruk or a bag of pucks given the development time the Flames have invested but you have to consider it if the offer is a good one. Personally unless the offer is substantial I would rather wait and see what the kid can do when he graduated to the AHL before cutting bait.

[Flames89]

I liked Weisbrod when he was here. Thought (aside from the Jankowski pick, where the ego to make a shocking out of nowhere how-didnt-we-all-see-it pick may have clouded his judgement) him and his team made smart moves and not by using the basic measuring sticks. Sure they made mistakes, like how small we got, but they admitted them and were working to change them.
The Flames and the excitement we feel now I attribute directly to the Feaster and Weisbrod years. But that is just me. However, I am far happier with the state of the Flames management now, but still liked those two nerds.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FAN

That is your own conclusion and you keep bringing that up even when others have proven you wrong. This was a move made by Feaster and he explained that this was to give Conroy more day to day management experience (we have frequently discussed that Conroy was being groomed) and for Weisbrod to concentrate on the Flames. This isn't anything out of the ordinary. Under Burke, Poulin replaced Nonis as the GM of the Marlies. I think it is safe to assume that Burke didn't do that because he felt Nonis did a poor job.



But a greater reliance on technology such as PUCKS is a change brought on by Feaster. So by extension, if a GM decides that the team is going to make greater use of technology in their scouting, that's a direct impact made to a team's drafting by the GM.


I honestly just read it from posters. Not really sure if it was a direct quote. Can you link me?

Personally, I just find it silly that Burke would not know what Weisbrod did and couldn't find out. But it is possible that Feaster didn't define roles all that well. Conroy himself said he was given a lot of responsibility by Feaster and Weisbrod and pretty much did everything. I find it interesting that Conroy would say that after Feaster and Weisbrod was let go suddenly everyone had more to do. If Weisbrod didn't do anything, then surely Burke could have temporarily took over Feaster's responsibilities adequately? Regardless, my point is that this shouldn't be any slight on Weisbrod. He's the AGM. Just like the role of Special Assistant to the GM, their roles and responsibilities should be defined by the GM. Weisbrod was clearly Feaster's right hand man and trusted advisor.




To be fair, it was also about trading down, picking up a 2nd, and drafting Jankowski.

What the hell are you talking about?

1) I have never posted that before. Ever

2) It has never been proven wrong by anyone

[Vinny01]

I honesty do not understand how anyone can defend Weisbroad. He pushed the flames to trade their 2012 first when they were a bottom feeding team until he saw Jankowski. The last thig the flames needed at that time was a 4-5 year project pick yet he pushed for that.

There are unconfirmed rumors he was heavily involved in the Bouwmeester trade preferring the Blues package of a 1st and garbage to the Wings stronger offer.

Who knows really but I don't see anything that Weisbroad did as great here in Calgary

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

The verdict is still out on whether Jankowski will be a better than the prospects who passed on... we could of had Olli Maatta which is probably one of best D men in that draft class.

If the Flames hadn't of traded down they could have taken Tomas Hertl. Imagine him on the wing alongside Monahan or Bennett

[JMN]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

If the Flames hadn't of traded down they could have taken Tomas Hertl. Imagine him on the wing alongside Monahan or Bennett

There's a lot of other players in that draft that I'd like to imagine with Monahan and Bennett. Jankowski still isn't one of them.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I still contend Weisbrod was canned largely for that whole Jankowski thing. Burke insinuated as such when he said he wasn't happy about the drafting when he let both guys go. Looking at the draft records, there actually wasn't alot to be unhappy about besides that pick. The fact that Todd Button is still around speaks to how much involvement he had in that process.

I mean, in a way, I respect Weisbrod for wearing that pick. He made it clear it was on him, he didn't hide from it. Hopefully Weisbrod picks more Jankowskis at the cost of Teravainens and Girgensons for Vancouver.

How's he doing in Chicago? Where did he finish in the Calder voting? How many points did he score?

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I honesty do not understand how anyone can defend Weisbroad. He pushed the flames to trade their 2012 first when they were a bottom feeding team until he saw Jankowski. The last thig the flames needed at that time was a 4-5 year project pick yet he pushed for that.

There are unconfirmed rumors he was heavily involved in the Bouwmeester trade preferring the Blues package of a 1st and garbage to the Wings stronger offer.

Who knows really but I don't see anything that Weisbroad did as great here in Calgary

You are lumping Weisbrod ability to make/suggest good management decisions and his ability to evaluate talent together. It should be separated. I don't think there is anything wrong with picking a 4-5 year project with enormous upside at #21. Realistically, the only guy at #14 that could be expected to be close to NHL ready was Girgensons and Wilson. The best defenders available and Teravainen with his slight build were expected to be at least 3 years away. I don't think there were too many who believed that Hertl would be able to make the type of impact he made at the NHL level so soon, even though he was playing against men.

I think that Weisbrod is a good talent evaluator. I don't think he would have been able to rise up in that Bruins organization under Chiarelli without some ability. But that doesn't mean he's going to bat 100% and that doesn't mean he knows how to build a winning team. So I think Weisbrod is at his best scouting the pro ranks and college (i.e. his job in Boston).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

...Hopefully Weisbrod picks more Jankowskis at the cost of Teravainens and Girgensons for Vancouver.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread but does this mean that Vancouver is a possible trade destination for Jankowski? If Weisbrod isn't putting the bug in Benning's ear then that's all you have to know about whether he realizes it was a mistake...

Originally Posted by JMN

There's a lot of other players in that draft that I'd like to imagine with Monahan and Bennett. Jankowski still isn't one of them.

It's still awfully premature to be drawing such firm conclusions about the quality of the Jankowski pick. He is not even 20-years-old yet.

There is a really good chance that most of you are right, but given the circumstances, I think that taking a much longer view of this player than most prospects, and reserving our judgement for another two-three years is absolutely the more prudent reaction to have.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What the hell are you talking about?

1) I have never posted that before. Ever

2) It has never been proven wrong by anyone

My apologies then if it was someone else who said the same thing. How do you interpret Treliving's plan to have Pascall run the AHL team rather than Conroy?

Point is unless there is concrete proof saying otherwise, there is no reasonable basis for assuming that an Conroy took over the day to day responsibilities of the Heat because Weisbrod did a poor job just like there is no reasonable basis for assuming that Treliving was unhappy with Conroy's performance running the AHL last season.

[Vulcan]

Weisbrod probably had trouble running the day to day responsibilities for the Heat from Florida.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Weisbrod probably had trouble running the day to day responsibilities for the Heat from Florida.

Maybe he thought he was sent to manage the other Heat?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It's still awfully premature to be drawing such firm conclusions about the quality of the Jankowski pick. He is not even 20-years-old yet.

There is a really good chance that most of you are right, but given the circumstances, I think that taking a much longer view of this player than most prospects, and reserving our judgement for another two-three years is absolutely the more prudent reaction to have.

Well yeah which is why I said in my post that the Flames may be best to hold on to him. Once you make the pick and put in a few years development it's simply wasteful to give up on the prospect. He's got some skills and it's just a matter of him putting everything together.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well yeah which is why I said in my post that the Flames may be best to hold on to him. Once you make the pick and put in a few years development it's simply wasteful to give up on the prospect. He's got some skills and it's just a matter of him putting everything together.

It was probably not fair to single your post out with the others, but the suggestion that Weisbrod has "realise[d his] mistake" presupposes that a mistake has been made. We probably agree on this point: it may very well have been a mistake to draft Jankowski, but we can't really know this for quite some time.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by FAN

You are lumping Weisbrod ability to make/suggest good management decisions and his ability to evaluate talent together. It should be separated. I don't think there is anything wrong with picking a 4-5 year project with enormous upside at #21. Realistically, the only guy at #14 that could be expected to be close to NHL ready was Girgensons and Wilson. The best defenders available and Teravainen with his slight build were expected to be at least 3 years away. I don't think there were too many who believed that Hertl would be able to make the type of impact he made at the NHL level so soon, even though he was playing against men.

It's also worth noting that the Flames traded down so they could pick Sieloff - also I Weisbrod guy IIRC. In fact rumour was they would have taken Sieloff at 21 if Janko was gone. Not sure if we would like that better or not.

Anyway the main point is we can't ultimately judge Weisbrod until all these pieces mature