5-year-old, grandparents disappear from Calgary home

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Because a while back I was asked to be finger printed in relation to a case as a witness and one of the first things I was told by the investigator was that they couldn't use my finger prints for any other case and it would not go into a database. I am assuming the same thing applies to these people.

If anything happens or has happened warranting a police investigation where you've touched something close to the scene, before or in the future, you could become a person-of-interest.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by BigNumbers

Arya Stark is correct. People giving prints voluntarily as witnesses, as he did and as the estate sale vistors are, will NOT be placed in the database. It's simply a one time matching TO the database to see if their prints are in there, etc.

However, if you work as a LEO, have been arrested and printed, etc - then your prints are in the database.

Make sense?

Where do you get this from?

[Kjesse]

Yes I'm a lawyer but I don't practice criminal law. I'd suggest that you accountants out there (i.e. Bignumbers) don't state what you know while taking a guess, and in the case the other guy who was "told" by the police, don't believe them, I could fill you full of stories where the police have lied to get some evidence.

There could be an actual, statutory reason they can't enter your fingerprints into the database after you volunteer them, but I don't know of any.

[Titan]

No, I promise I won't put this video on the internet either...

[Minnie]

We just recently moved to the area and you cannot swing a cat around here without running into CPS/tactical - we've been seeing them most at the Tim's across the way, and yesterday, we ran into one of the canine guys at the Balzac Costco, buying a couple of new dog beds. Talked to one of the CPS guys the other day but only just said I was sorry they have to deal with all of this. I thought he might cry, honestly. He just looked destroyed.

I sort of feel like I stop breathing for a bit every time that damned breaking news screen comes up on Global, and my heart sinks to my stomach. I've stopped checking any news sites, and I've only read this thread and watched the news since yesterday. It's just....overload, when so much info seems to be incorrect.

[Inferno099]

Updated reminder of Amber Alert

http://emergencyalert.alberta.ca/ale...4/07/2581.html

[calgarygeologist]

The disappearance of the boy and his grandparents gets a lot of air time on the news and obviously a lot of attention on the internet. I find it somewhat odd though that Alberta Emergency Alert is not broadcasting the Amber Alert on radio stations. I listen to various radio stations fairly frequently but I have only heard the Amber Alert broadcast once and that was on Canada Day when the disappearance was reported.

[BigNumbers]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Yes I'm a lawyer but I don't practice criminal law. I'd suggest that you accountants out there (i.e. Bignumbers) don't state what you know while taking a guess, and in the case the other guy who was "told" by the police, don't believe them, I could fill you full of stories where the police have lied to get some evidence.

There could be an actual, statutory reason they can't enter your fingerprints into the database after you volunteer them, but I don't know of any.

I am not guessing. I'll pull the relevant act info later.

[BigNumbers]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Yes I'm a lawyer but I don't practice criminal law. I'd suggest that you accountants out there (i.e. Bignumbers) don't state what you know while taking a guess, and in the case the other guy who was "told" by the police, don't believe them, I could fill you full of stories where the police have lied to get some evidence.

There could be an actual, statutory reason they can't enter your fingerprints into the database after you volunteer them, but I don't know of any.

Further to your rather pompous tone: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cr-cj/fing...aq-eng.htm#a10

These fingerprints are collected in this situation under the auspices of the Canadian Criminal Real Time Identification Services and as such, per the RCMP:

"The fingerprints are not added to the RCMP National Repository of Criminal Records and are not searched for future purposes."

Further: The RCMP destroys fingerprint submissions 90 days after a search is completed and the results are returned to the police service.


The only way to get into the database is to be added to the RCMP National Repository of Criminal Records as is noted above. Volunteering you fingerprints under CCRTIS will not result in your prints going into the NRCR.

[CedarMeter]

How old is this Douglas Garland character?

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by BigNumbers

Further to your rather pompous tone: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cr-cj/fing...aq-eng.htm#a10

These fingerprints are collected in this situation under the auspices of the Canadian Criminal Real Time Identification Services and as such, per the RCMP:

"The fingerprints are not added to the RCMP National Repository of Criminal Records and are not searched for future purposes."

Further: The RCMP destroys fingerprint submissions 90 days after a search is completed and the results are returned to the police service.


The only way to get into the database is to be added to the RCMP National Repository of Criminal Records as is noted above. Volunteering you fingerprints under CCRTIS will not result in your prints going into the NRCR.

Let's be clear here, since we're all adults:

-I'm not intentionally pompous. If I am, I apologize. Were I pompous by design, my username might be something like "Biglaw" to suggest I'm important or prominent in my field, sort of like your choice of "Bignumbers" as an accountant. If I'm otherwise pompous, that is not intentional. I think my posting history shows humility. In this case, I've said show me otherwise on the facts, and I'll stand corrected. For you, an incorrect google search is the law.

-You are on your fourth username because you are both pompous and an agitator... you don't respond with civility when you are shown to be incorrect and blow your top. I'm still on my original user name, by the way.

-What you've shown is not responsive to my request to show a law which prohibits the use of fingerprints in this situation in perpetuity. There could actually be one, and I'm not so informed to know about it. If you find it, that's great, I'll admit I'm wrong. (You've provided a policy which hasn't been shown to apply here, but at least you have decent google skills.)

-Let me give you an example of the police lying to get evidence: Every undercover operation ever. Also, any evidence they obtain is fair game as long as it doesn't violate your charter rights. If you rely on a webpage as your saving grace, all the best to you.

-The big issue here is the safety of the child. I don't know why but I'm not so concerned about the grandparents in this case. The boy is surely blameless however.

[malcolmk14]

early or mid-50's I think...

[Inferno099]

Douglas Garland is 54 according to the news

[BigNumbers]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Let's be clear here, since we're all adults:

-I'm not intentionally pompous. If I am, I apologize. Were I pompous by design, my username might be something like "Biglaw" to suggest I'm important or prominent in my field, sort of like your choice of "Bignumbers" as an accountant. If I'm otherwise pompous, that is not intentional. I think my posting history shows humility. In this case, I've said show me otherwise on the facts, and I'll stand corrected. For you, an incorrect google search is the law.

-You are on your fourth username because you are both pompous and an agitator... you don't respond with civility when you are shown to be incorrect and blow your top. I'm still on my original user name, by the way.

-What you've shown is not responsive to my request to show a law which prohibits the use of fingerprints in this situation in perpetuity. There could actually be one, and I'm not so informed to know about it. If you find it, that's great, I'll admit I'm wrong. (You've provided a policy which hasn't been shown to apply here, but at least you have decent google skills.)

-Let me give you an example of the police lying to get evidence: Every undercover operation ever. Also, any evidence they obtain is fair game as long as it doesn't violate your charter rights. If you rely on a webpage as your saving grace, all the best to you.

-The big issue here is the safety of the child. I don't know why but I'm not so concerned about the grandparents in this case. The boy is surely blameless however.

I think you took my use of the word pompous a bit personal - it was more tongue in cheek and certainly didn't mean for it to cause you to bring all guns to bare. I think you have me confused with someone though? I am certainly not on a fourth name!?! I've been here two years nearly - Hardly someone whose unable to maintain civility. I am not an accountant, I work in finance and do derivative work, hence the name... Definitely not meant in a pompous term - happy for someone to change it to "middleclassnumbers'' if it was mistaken for a humblebrag.

I am so confused by this entire response, I'd like to have a civil rebuttal (but then again you said I'm incapable of such?) but I think you're responding to others than me?

I made one or two posts here simply confirming that it is indeed true that prints given voluntarily by those not charged are kept out of the database and are not referenced against in future cases... I think linking to the RCMP's website indicating as such is ample proof.

As for the rest, I think you're replying to others, as I never made any other claims. I join you in being very concerned for the well being of the child, especially. It hit home for me as I have three little boys, and I can't imagine the grief...

Take care, and if you'd like to discuss anything further, feel free to PM me. Let's focus on this poor family and hoping for the best.

[metallicat]

Is this a new fad to refer to people by their initials?

[BigNumbers]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Is this a new fad to refer to people by their initials?

I think it stems from emails. I work with a lot of folks who sign off on stuff with their initials, and it seems to have gotten more prominent, as a form of electronic shorthand.

[Cuz]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Is this a new fad to refer to people by their initials?

If it is, I am not a fan. If you read the WebSleuths forum on the case, that's all most users do to refer to those involved in the case. It becomes rather tiresome after a while.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

I just thought it was a way to avoid libel, with them only using full names when quoting news articles and stating definite facts. Not sure if that would hold up in court.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Cuz

If it is, I am not a fan. If you read the WebSleuths forum on the case, that's all most users do to refer to those involved in the case. It becomes rather tiresome after a while.

Yeah, it comes across as "I am so sleuthy, look at me sleuth, while I sleuth. I should so be working the crime lab with Emily Proctor and David Caruso because I can google....like a sleuthy sleuth."

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by Delgar

If anything happens or has happened warranting a police investigation where you've touched something close to the scene, before or in the future, you could become a person-of-interest.

Even though the waiver I signed specifically said they couldn't?

I'm not claiming to know the law regarding this or to be an expert, all I'm sharing is my experience. All I know is when they asked me to voluntarily give up prints, the paper I signed was a release which he told me they legally needed me to sign in order for them to take my prints and when he went over it he said they could not use it for any other case. I remember it because I joked they could use it for anything they want as long as they wanted since I have nothing to hide. I don't think they'd have me sign something I wasn't legally obligated to sign since I was being 100% cooperative. Either way, I just hope they find all 3 people alive and well.