5-year-old, grandparents disappear from Calgary home

[Ducay]

CBC news with an absolutely groundbreaking piece of journalism.

Originally Posted by www.cbc.ca/news

Calgary Amber Alert raises safety questions over estate sales

Apparently letting over 200 strangers walk through your home is going to have risks! Whodathough?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ducay

CBC news with an absolutely groundbreaking piece of journalism.



Apparently letting over 200 strangers walk through your home is going to have risks! Whodathough?

I would bet the risks are very low and now being exagerated. The current POI is linked to the family so even without the estate sale this even may have occurred. Not reading the article this seems like the same argument that got made when the guy apparently got stabbed "selling his phone" on kijiji.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Ducay

CBC news with an absolutely groundbreaking piece of journalism.



Apparently letting over 200 strangers walk through your home is going to have risks! Whodathough?

I would actually like to see some numbers or stats relating to crimes at estate sales. I think this is an obvious exception to the norm. On any given weekend in Calgary, during the warmer months, there are probably about 5 estate sales going on. I sometimes stop at sales when I drive by and it is always the same. They are an open house format and always packed with people. I'm actually quite surprised by the estimate of only 200 or so people going through the Liknes sale over a weekend. That seems like a low estimate but it was the Canada Day weekend so that could cause a low turnout.

There are obviously safety measures that can be considered. If I was to hold an open house estate sale I would probably now consider installing a camera and hard drive at the front door to get an image of everyone entering.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Delgar

I don't care if they're being defamed, its not about that anymore, its about why they're missing.

Agreed. CPS is being overly sensitive in their press. Truth is it sucks to be in a situation like this for the O'Brien and Liknes families but things will leak out after an incident had been front page news for a week now. It was obviously that Garland had some dealings with the Liknes that led to all of this.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Ducay

CBC news with an absolutely groundbreaking piece of journalism.



Apparently letting over 200 strangers walk through your home is going to have risks! Whodathough?

As is often the case when CBC starts spreading FUD, the comments section is disabled.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by GGG

I would bet the risks are very low and now being exagerated. The current POI is linked to the family so even without the estate sale this even may have occurred. Not reading the article this seems like the same argument that got made when the guy apparently got stabbed "selling his phone" on kijiji.

I know you're being facetious but there are several cases involving very violent crimes where the victim is chosen at random through public sales services like kijiji, craigslist, etc. The Tim Bosma / Dellen Millard case is one example - Bosma had absolutely no connection to Millard, an unbelievably tragic case and reason enough to be on your guard (at least a "yellow state") in almost every situation.

As for this case... The more this goes on, I am left to wonder if something tragic happened between the grandparents, and DG was called in to help deal with it, knowing that he has a sketchy past and might know how to cover things up... And may owe a few favours.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

I know you're being facetious but there are several cases involving very violent crimes where the victim is chosen at random through public sales services like kijiji, craigslist, etc. The Tim Bosma / Dellen Millard case is one example - Bosma had absolutely no connection to Millard, an unbelievably tragic case and reason enough to be on your guard (at least a "yellow state") in almost every situation.

As for this case... The more this goes on, I am left to wonder if something tragic happened between the grandparents, and DG was called in to help deal with it, knowing that he has a sketchy past and might know how to cover things up... And may owe a few favours.

I am not being facetious. The risk of these transactions is likely less than the act of driving to do the transactions. I hate the fear mongering that comes out of these things as people try to control what is either a random event that taking percausions wouldn't have helped or a situation where the perpatrator was known to the victim. Either way an article on the risks of estate sales doesn't really help anyone other than to increase the culture of fear.

A culture of fear makes crime much easier because then you don't know your neighbours, there are less people around, less socialization. Al things that make crime easier. So it bugs me when what people take from these incidents is you need to be more cautious.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GGG

A culture of fear makes crime much easier because then you don't know your neighbours, there are less people around, less socialization. Al things that make crime easier. So it bugs me when what people take from these incidents is you need to be more cautious.

Not only that, but the "strangers = evil" angle is rather ridiculous in this case given the police are focusing in on someone who knew the victims.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Not only that, but the "strangers = evil" angle is rather ridiculous in this case given the police are focusing in on someone who knew the victims.

Family = the folks who know which buttons to push how to make someone the maddest, fastest.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by GGG

I am not being facetious. The risk of these transactions is likely less than the act of driving to do the transactions. I hate the fear mongering that comes out of these things as people try to control what is either a random event that taking percausions wouldn't have helped or a situation where the perpatrator was known to the victim. Either way an article on the risks of estate sales doesn't really help anyone other than to increase the culture of fear.

A culture of fear makes crime much easier because then you don't know your neighbours, there are less people around, less socialization. Al things that make crime easier. So it bugs me when what people take from these incidents is you need to be more cautious.

I think there is a pretty clear line between living in fear and being cautious. In my view, it is wise to be at least cautious in all but the most trust worthy situations, and yes I would include going to or hosting a yard sale in this category.

I suggested you were being facetious because you seemed to dismiss the notion that doing something like a kijiji meet up is without risk at all. But are you suggesting that you would not be the least bit cautious if you were going to a strange place to meet a strange person for any reason, even if it is as benign as say... selling a pair of tickets to a Flames game? I think you might automatically suggest a very public space as the meeting area and let one or more people know what you were doing and who you were meeting with. That's not fear, it's completely rational behavior... yet I am not certain that taking these sort of steps or paying attention to your surroundings, assessing risks and thinking about how you would respond in emergency situations is something the average person does with regularity, so it is not worthless to write news articles that suggest it is a good idea to do so. Threat awareness, risk assessment, response planning are useful skills, and I do not understand your disdain for the idea of promoting this level of thinking, even if the probability of such events occurring is low. When the consequence of a low probability threat is death, don't you think it is worthwhile to at least think about how to respond in a situation?

Its about being prepared and ready to handle situations that would take most others by surprise.

Here is an interesting article describing what I mean in more detail.

"Condition Yellow is best described as relaxed alert. There’s no specific threat situation, but you have your head up and eyes open, and you’re taking in your surroundings in a relaxed, but alert manner. When you’re in Condition Yellow, you’re less likely to be caught off-guard from a sudden threat and you are better able to respond should a threat arise. Heart rate is normal, so there isn’t any degradation of fine motor skills or cognitive ability."

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Not only that, but the "strangers = evil" angle is rather ridiculous in this case given the police are focusing in on someone who knew the victims.

While true, it doesn't make the topic itself less important.

Back on topic... no one has any thoughts on the theory that DG might be acting as an accomplice?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

I think there is a pretty clear line between living in fear and being cautious. In my view, it is wise to be at least cautious in all but the most trust worthy situations, and yes I would include going to or hosting a yard sale in this category.

I suggested you were being facetious because you seemed to dismiss the notion that doing something like a kijiji meet up is without risk at all. But are you suggesting that you would not be the least bit cautious if you were going to a strange place to meet a strange person for any reason, even if it is as benign as say... selling a pair of tickets to a Flames game? I think you might automatically suggest a very public space as the meeting area and let one or more people know what you were doing and who you were meeting with. That's not fear, it's completely rational behavior... yet I am not certain that taking these sort of steps or paying attention to your surroundings, assessing risks and thinking about how you would respond in emergency situations is something the average person does with regularity, so it is not worthless to write news articles that suggest it is a good idea to do so. Threat awareness, risk assessment, response planning are useful skills, and I do not understand your disdain for the idea of promoting this level of thinking, even if the probability of such events occurring is low. When the consequence of a low probability threat is death, don't you think it is worthwhile to at least think about how to respond in a situation?

Its about being prepared and ready to handle situations that would take most others by surprise.

Here is an interesting article describing what I mean in more detail.

"Condition Yellow is best described as relaxed alert. There’s no specific threat situation, but you have your head up and eyes open, and you’re taking in your surroundings in a relaxed, but alert manner. When you’re in Condition Yellow, you’re less likely to be caught off-guard from a sudden threat and you are better able to respond should a threat arise. Heart rate is normal, so there isn’t any degradation of fine motor skills or cognitive ability."



While true, it doesn't make the topic itself less important.

Back on topic... no one has any thoughts on the theory that DG might be acting as an accomplice?

Its an interesting idea and a good read but it is based on the thought that something bad could always happen so be alert. I perfer to believe the vast majority of people are good so I don't have to worry.

So for selling flames tickets I let people come to my house to pick them up. I email tickets to people on kijiji before they email me money. I don't worry about leaving doors unlocked.

I would rather increase my odds of dying or being a victim of crime marginally the live in fear. (I think I have derailed this thread enough though).

[Minnie]

Press conference at 2 pm apparently. (ETA: now I've heard it's possibly at 145 pm)

[rain_e]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Press conference at 2 pm apparently. (ETA: now I've heard it's possibly at 145 pm)

Source?

[Minnie]

Airdrie radio station FB page, said about 15 minutes or so ago. Been watching their page for the last week.

ETA: I can't see the video but the 145 pm time apparently comes from CTV Calgary. You can probably check their website to see. My phone just doesn't support their format so can't see the video.

[IgiTang]

Any updates from the presser would be really appreciated. Thank you.

[Minnie]

Got to my laptop finally - CTV's livestream is to begin at 2 pm.

Link

[Minnie]

Nothing new. Still searching the acreage, search will continue. Amber Alert remains in effect. Still considered a missing persons investigation. Answering questions now.


Looks to only be streaming online - I'm seeing nothing on tv.

[Ozy_Flame]

Interesting. They have found items in the field/slough they're searching in and have sent them to the crime lab.

[Huntingwhale]

Why don't they have everyone raise their hand for questions and have someone select one at a time? It's just a yelling match to get your question and that soft spoken chick is never gonna get her question in.

[Minnie]

At least they got some intelligent and articulate people in to speak this time, instead of that total dumbass they had the last time.