Activists lock down Chuckwagon track

[OldDutch]

As a born Calgarian who has been here all my life I probably am not the best to comment. However, I do see why some people maybe uncomfortable, but never agreed with the shut it down mentality.

I went to the rodeo yesterday, and on train met a guy who was hired to do security at the barns. The guy was from BC never been to a rodeo in his life and Thursday was his first day to walk around. He told me first hand of how well the horses have it, and he spoke to the drivers who told them about all the care that goes into the horses. He was quite impressed and said it was probably the best security gig he ever got.

So ya, I see the point they are pampered but are subject to a slightly higher risk of injury. Ok fine, but the alternative is these horses by and large would be glue. At least they get a chance to do what they were built for, which is working. Just like working class dogs these animals are bread to serve, it is their purpose.

As Calgary gets bigger and more liberal (I see myself as one for the record), we see a lot more of this mind set that animals are people. They aren't. As I have said countless times in the dog forums, we owe animals to be treated humanly, after that they are animals, their purpose is to serve us. People are getting wrapped up in the same thing with dogs, that these animals deserve the same treatment as people, complete with reasoning with them, dressing them and feeding them like people. That to me has always been wrong, not fair to the animal at all.

So at any rate, I hope the Stampede never gives into these people who just don't get it. At some point this world class city needs to stand up and say this is who we are. Maybe in Victoria, Toronto, NYC you do it this way but it is not us and that is ok. Calgary is the place it is today because of where we came from, and we don't need to water our identity down to a better Klondike Days to make some guy from Seattle happy.

It has worked for another world class cities in Spain that have the very worst sport on the planet, bull fighting. If you ever want to throw up go see that, then fly back and tell me the Stampede is awful and should be shuttered.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

"These owners love their horses more than anything". Pushing a horse so far as to cause a heart attack doesn't exactly resemble care to me.

A horse is born to run.

The term heart attack, as applied to a horse, is not accurate. You are making it sound like a human heart attack, which it is not. Usually it is related to an vessel breakage or aneurysm. This also occurs out in the middle of fields and increases with the horses age. When it happens, it is terrible, but you make it sound like they are not trained creatures that are doing what they are best at.

Side note: if you are a male in North America, you have a 50/50 chance of going out with a heart attack as well.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

No. You're 100% mistaken. The average generic race track horse is sent to the slaughterhouse around 6 years old. Certain lucky ones go on to become chuckwagon horses who can live past 20.

In a nice ideal world every race horse would retire to pasture to live peaceful for the rest of their lives, or maybe not be subjected to racing in the first place. That's obviously not the case, they get injured, old and used and are done and sent for a couple dollars to be shot in the head and ground up for dog food. The chuckwagons save the lives, at least unfortunately temporarily, of these generic race horses and provide an opportunity that very few race horses get to see old (and middle) age.

Of course an even better life would be just kept safely as a pet but financial that's impossible.

I think for the most part people are just misinformed and think the majority of these horses are bred from the beginning to be chuckwagon horses or are auctioned off where the options are being sent to the stud farm to be jerked off for the rest of their lives or be savagely killed in the chuckwagons. If that was the case I could see the argument, but it's not. And I know some people hold the view that it would be better to be dead than a chuckwagon horse. But I've been around these horses. I'm not a horse whisperer but they seem happy and well taken care of. If a couple accidents a year kill a dozen, while unfortunate, isn't it better than just killing them all?

Good point. I'm only referring to the risks associated with the races themselves, chucks vs single horse race. The races are what people "see" (ie the crashes, euthanasia tarp, etc), and why they get all up in arms. They don't see the 6 year old track horses, who've been fed all manner of steroids throughout their lives, all being sent to the glue factory and the chuck horses being retired to a pasture, you know?

Anyways. I was in attendance for that crash at the centennial stampede and it was very upsetting. Although it was upsetting to be concerned about the horses but I was also pretty terrified that the driver and one of the outriders had been badly injured (which in the end I think they were both fine). But the crash looked really bad for horses and humans alike. Just based on what I witnessed I can understand why some people aren't fans of the chucks, especially if they don't have a good understanding of the care the horses receive and the nice retirements they get, etc.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

"These owners love their horses more than anything". Pushing a horse so far as to cause a heart attack doesn't exactly resemble care to me.

They dont "push" horses to "heart attacks".

Like humans, horses have heart attacks fo a variety of reasons....and usually it isnt a real heart attack.

The fact some people still call this "cruel" to the animals is very telling as to where their belief system lies and regardless of all facts to the contrary, will still insist that no chucks is better than having them.

Sure there will be accidents....but its not like those involved arent doing all they can to stop them from happening, cause they are. But accidents happen...in all sports and indeed all facets of life.

Those that want to see the chucks done away with should take some time and go down to the barns during the day and talk to those involved. They are, for the most part, among the nicest and most genuine people you will ever meet. May give some of you a better pespective of what the chuck community does for animals.

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

A horse is born to run.

The term heart attack, as applied to a horse, is not accurate. You are making it sound like a human heart attack, which it is not. Usually it is related to an vessel breakage or aneurysm. This also occurs out in the middle of fields and increases with the horses age. When it happens, it is terrible, but you make it sound like they are not trained creatures that are doing what they are best at.

Side note: if you are a male in North America, you have a 50/50 chance of going out with a heart attack as well.

So the heart attack isn't a result of the race? And the horse would have suffered the same fate at the same time out in the pasture?

"Exercise induced pulmonary hemorrhage (EIPH), also known as "bleeding" or a "bleeding attack", refers to the presence of blood in the airways of the lung in association with exercise. EIPH is common in horses undertaking intense exercise"

-In 2013, a 12-year-old thoroughbred ridden by an outrider collapsed with a burst lung artery and died shortly afterwards, a death atrributed to Exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrhage (EIPH).

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

So the heart attack isn't a result of the race? And the horse would have suffered the same fate at the same time out in the pasture?

"Exercise induced pulmonary hemorrhage (EIPH), also known as "bleeding" or a "bleeding attack", refers to the presence of blood in the airways of the lung in association with exercise. EIPH is common in horses undertaking intense exercise"

It is from the race, but what do you suggest? Should we stop letting horses run? As others have pointed out, every preventative measure is taken and the horses are fully medically assessed. Sometimes bad things happen though, no matter how much precaution is taken.

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

It is from the race, but what do you suggest? Should we stop letting horses run? As others have pointed out, every preventative measure is taken and the horses are fully medically assessed. Sometimes bad things happen though, no matter how much precaution is taken.

A horse running out in a field is allot different than being tied to 3 other horses and being forced to run. Sure bad things do happen (naturally or at a rodeo), but do we really need to encourage it simply for our entertainment?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Muta

Do you not like their message? Or their tactics?

Attention whoring tactics are never about the issue that is nominally being pushed. It is about the individuals trying to get their own name in the headlines. The only thing these idiots have done with their trespassing stunt is further the argument that Canada would be better off if Vancouver fell into the ocean.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

A horse running out in a field is allot different than being tied to 3 other horses and being forced to run. Sure bad things do happen (naturally or at a rodeo), but do we really need to encourage it simply for our entertainment?

It's nice to think that people are just going to own horses to let them run around a field all day for 20+ years when the rodeo/chucks are gone. I mean it's not like horses are expensive or anything.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

A horse running out in a field is allot different than being tied to 3 other horses and being forced to run. Sure bad things do happen (naturally or at a rodeo), but do we really need to encourage it simply for our entertainment?

Serious question. Would you prefer they simply sent to the slaughterhouse instead? Or what other option do you think realistically exist?

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

A horse running out in a field is allot different than being tied to 3 other horses and being forced to run. Sure bad things do happen (naturally or at a rodeo), but do we really need to encourage it simply for our entertainment?

How is it encouraging it?
They run.
They will run regardless of the Stampede.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by fotze

Shouldn't they not own the thing if they can't afford it? I'm going to kill my kids once they turn 15 and start getting expensive.

In that analogy, the chuckwagon owners would be the people who come to you and offer to take your kids off your hands (even give you some cash) so you don't kill them and then put them to work in their office.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

So the heart attack isn't a result of the race? And the horse would have suffered the same fate at the same time out in the pasture?

"Exercise induced pulmonary hemorrhage (EIPH), also known as "bleeding" or a "bleeding attack", refers to the presence of blood in the airways of the lung in association with exercise. EIPH is common in horses undertaking intense exercise"

-In 2013, a 12-year-old thoroughbred ridden by an outrider collapsed with a burst lung artery and died shortly afterwards, a death atrributed to Exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrhage (EIPH).

You do realize human athletes have died from similar reasons, right?

The author of the popular running book 'Born To Run' died off a heart attack.

Has nothing to do with 'pushing' them too far. Unless of course you believe it is stupid for humans or horses to run long distances like that. Or run at all. Anyone who has been around horses knows that they absolutely love to run.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by fotze

Shouldn't they not own the thing if they can't afford it? I'm going to kill my kids once they turn 15 and start getting expensive.

Something you created =\= something you own

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Attention whoring tactics are never about the issue that is nominally being pushed. It is about the individuals trying to get their own name in the headlines. The only thing these idiots have done with their trespassing stunt is further the argument that Canada would be better off if Vancouver fell into the ocean.

We'll have to disagree. I don't like their tactics, but now I know who VADL is and the issue they're drawing attention to. Furthermore, I don't believe for a second these protesters are just trying to 'get ther own name in the headlines'. That's not the point at all.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by fotze

Shouldn't they not own the thing if they can't afford it? I'm going to kill my kids once they turn 15 and start getting expensive.

HAHAHAHA

I'm not having kids for that exact reason. Too expensive, too much work.


We should race kids in chuckwagons, though.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by Muta

We'll have to disagree. I don't like their tactics, but now I know who VADL is and the issue they're drawing attention to. Furthermore, I don't believe for a second these protesters are just trying to 'get ther own name in the headlines'. That's not the point at all.

Do you think them trespassing on the track and locking themselves to the track did a single thing to stop the chuckwagons from being stopped in the future?

Do you think that the Stampede board will think for a second about these two idiots when deciding on chuckwagons or not?

If anything in getting out the VADL name they made that group look like more of a joke and undermined any credibility it may have had with much of the public, especially those that make the kind of decisions they want changed.

Instead of this stunt they could have put effort into actual things that may get the change they want. Approach people in a manner that adults do and people in the "real" world handle things.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Read Only

Do you think them trespassing on the track and locking themselves to the track did a single thing to stop the chuckwagons from being stopped in the future?

Do you think that the Stampede board will think for a second about these two idiots when deciding on chuckwagons or not?

If anything in getting out the VADL name they made that group look like more of a joke and undermined any credibility it may have had with much of the public, especially those that make the kind of decisions they want changed.

Instead of this stunt they could have put effort into actual things that may get the change they want. Approach people in a manner that adults do and people in the "real" world handle things.

Like I said, I never agreed with their tactics. But now I know what their message is whether you like it or not. Couldn't care less about how the Stampede board sees it or how you think VADL should have done it - doesn't matter at this point.

[Read Only]

Why would I like it or not?

It's great that you don't care about what the Stampede board cares about it but you would think they would care and want it changed otherwise as Resolute says it is just attention whoring by them to make themselves feel like big shots.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

A horse running out in a field is allot different than being tied to 3 other horses and being forced to run. Sure bad things do happen (naturally or at a rodeo), but do we really need to encourage it simply for our entertainment?

They wouldn't be running in a field though, they'd be dead.
So a serious question, and not trolling anything, is it better they be dead than running with the wagons. Those are the alternatives. There is no option c.

Which do you choose?