[Signing] Flames sign Deryk Engelland (3yrs, $2.9M AAV)

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by googol

Giving him this much money doesn't matter now. But it does set a standard for the rest of the league and team. Imagine what Gio's or Brodie's next contract will be like given Engellands

Yah, Boogiemen are scary.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Dedicated goons play, on average, 5 minutes a game. Engelland averaged 13 last year. So dedicated goon, IMO, isnt a fair representation of him.

Goons that are dmen do. The only dmen to play more than 40 games (ie guys who were at least more or less full time NHLer's) who averaged less ice time than him were:

Sheldon Brookbank
Matt Carkner
Shane O'Brien
Yannick Weber

That is it. In that exclusive group of 5 only Weber could not be considered a goon. Out of the 195 dmen in the NHL who played at least 40 games he was 191st in TOI.


If you drop the number of GP to 10, you say "Geez Engelland must get more TOI than AHL tweeners" you would be right, out of all 257 dmen in the NHL that played at least 10 games only the following averaged less ice time than he.

Mark Boroweicki
Frank Corrado
Matt Dumba
Chad Billins
Justin Faulk (the NYR one not the Olympian)
Mike Komasarek
Jonathan Blum
Jean Phillipe Cote
Derek Smith
Keith Aulie
Andrew Alberts

242 out of 257 dmen in the NHL who played at least 10 games averaged more TOI. Englland barely got more TOI than AHL fillers in most cases. In Pittsburgh with all their injuries to dmen Bylsma literally would prefer AHL filler to this guy being on the ice.

Goon dmen do average 13 minutes of ice time a game, I think the stats from last year prove that.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Please suggest a better rugged, right handed D UFA option

Sarich is a better dman than this guy for one year.

[East Coast Flame]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Sarich is a better dman than this guy for one year.

Hell I would even give Derrick Morris another shot before this loony toons Engelland deal.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Please suggest a better rugged, right handed D UFA option

I don't know if there is one or not. I just don't see paying that much money for a bottom paring D. But it's not my money

[tvp2003]

For a little over a month last year (late November to early January), he regularly played 20+ shifts for the Pens, and was around 17 to 22 minutes per game. +2 during that stretch and the team went 12-3.

Contract value aside, he looks like a decent, physical 3rd pairing guy that can eat up some extra minutes in a pinch. If he can smash a few faces along the way, all the better.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by aarongavey

goons that are dmen do. The only dmen to play more than 40 games (ie guys who were at least more or less full time nhler's) who averaged less ice time than him were:

Sheldon brookbank
matt carkner
shane o'brien
yannick weber

that is it. In that exclusive group of 5 only weber could be considered a goon.

wtf?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Sarich is a better dman than this guy for one year.

Originally Posted by East Coast Flame

Hell I would even give Derrick Morris another shot before this loony toons Engelland deal.

Morris is not even close to rugged.
Sarich a bit more so, but not what the Flames were after. They wanted a guy to help make the little guys feel/play bigger and to punch some faces. I'm not sold on the 4th line NHL enforcer at all. They are never on the ice enough to make any difference. This guy will be. Whether that difference is good or bad, I am not entirely sure.
There were 6-8 NHL teams after Engelland for a reason. You may dislike the reason, and see it as useless, but that doesn't make it less valuable in the NHL, and therefore ridiculously costly as a free agent.

[19Yzerman19]

Yeah Yannick Weber is a 5'11 swiss defenseman whose biggest asset is his slapshot, I think you've got him confused with someone else.

[Cflames_12.5]

I'm pretty sure the first time Engelland drops the mitts everyone hating on him and his contract will be out of their seats cheering him.

[_Q_]

The Flames make a couple of great signings, yet this is the thread that has turned into the 550+ post monster.

[united]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Please suggest a better rugged, right handed D UFA option

Brett Bellmore would probably* come cheaper, be a comparably poor player, and is fairly rugged (depending on definition).
*who knows what he is asking for in free agency.

Engelland 6'2 215
PIMs/game: 1.04
Hits/game: 2.09
Blocks/game: 0.93
6 fighting majors
1 match penalty
2 roughing minors
2 slashing minors

Bellemore 6'4 225
PIMs/game: 0.7
Hits/game: 2.64
Blocks/game: 1.53
3 fighting majors
5 roughing minors
1 slashing minor

So Engelland fights more, but Bellemore does other "rugged" things more, and is bigger.

Furthermore, Bellemore is 6 years younger, played 17 minutes/game, a greater percentage of his team's shorthanded time, and put up better possession numbers despite worse zone starts and tougher competition and equally poor teammates.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by united

So Engelland fights more, but Bellemore does other "rugged" things more, and is bigger.

Furthermore, Bellemore is 6 years younger, played 17 minutes/game, a greater percentage of his team's shorthanded time, and put up better possession numbers despite worse zone starts and tougher competition and equally poor teammates.

And the difference may be the talk about how Engelland was very well liked and respected in the room. That his attitude and work ethic was a fit. I don't know.

But yes, I'm surprised that one of the 6-8 teams offering to Engelland (assuming they were looking for this type of guy) haven't signed Bellemore instead. By the numbers, he looks like a better choice, imo.

[Enoch Root]

The Flames were 27th in the league last year and lacked some physicality.

They will probably be about 27th or 28th in the league this year as well.

They will barely make the cap floor.

And people are up in arms about how much the #6 defenseman is going to get paid and/or how good he is.

lol

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by FAN

wtf?

I missed the word not . Obviously Weber is the only dman who is not a goon out of that group. Typing on a smart phone sucks.

That being said, like most of the people who do not care in this thread about this signing I do not really care because

1) Burke and company are trying to lose this year, this signing accomplishes that. Despite the fact that there were many player better than this guy, they locked him down for three years at a ridiculous contract. This shows dedication not only to McDavid but also Day.

2) We are not going to meet the cap floor anyway. Despite some other glaring holes on this team the Flames will not be spending that money, basically in recognition of the goal outlined in point one.

3) Punching a guy in the face after he gets a goal seems like a better option than just skating away. Engelland will be better at this than almost any dman the Flames have had since Simpson/Belak. The more goals the other team gets the closer we are to accomplishing point one.

[ForeverFlameFan]

May have been overpayment for a 6/7th guy, but if he's not that good, it still opens up a spot for a rookie to prove himself for the 6th spot.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The Flames were 27th in the league last year and lacked some physicality.

They will probably be about 27th or 28th in the league this year as well.

They will barely make the cap floor.

And people are up in arms about how much the #6 defenseman is going to get paid and/or how good he is.

lol

So you're saying
It's the worst value contract in the league, but we can afford it easily, so who cares how bad our GM is at signing contracts?


I'm not going to say this tarnishes everything else he's done, nor does it alone make him a terrible GM. It is worrisome that he felt this was worth the signing

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The Flames were 27th in the league last year and lacked some physicality.

They will probably be about 27th or 28th in the league this year as well.

So having added "physicality" along with the estimation that the Flames will be the same or worse... would you not then come to the conclusion that "physicality" is way way way overrated.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

So you're saying
It's the worst value contract in the league, but we can afford it easily, so who cares how bad our GM is at signing contracts?


I'm not going to say this tarnishes everything else he's done, nor does it alone make him a terrible GM. It is worrisome that he felt this was worth the signing

No, I did not say anything remotely close to that. That's some quality reading comprehension on display there.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Parallex

So having added "physicality" along with the estimation that the Flames will be the same or worse... would you not then come to the conclusion that "physicality" is way way way overrated.

And here's a solid example of a lack of understanding of logic...

No I would not come to that conclusion.

It is a team game with 23 players (more like 30 over the course of a season). There are a myriad of variables that will determine how good a team is.

One (of many) areas that the Flames lacked in last year was physicality. They have addressed that.

Unfortunately (?) they probably won't score as many goals, but they could be a bit better on the goals against side.

Also, they could improve quite a bit (or worsen by quite a bit) and still be in the 27th - 28th area of the standings.

But nice attempt at twisting someone's words.