Expectations for 2014-15 Season

[DeluxeMoustache]

Team should improve. No sexy upgrades yet

Best case:
Gio - best case a full year. Team was worse without him
Hiller - better than Berra and Joey Mac
Ramo - was better later than earlier
Wideman healthy, Butler out and Engelland keeping the blue paint clear
Cammy's indifferent play pre deadline removed. Raymond is sadly arguably equal to last year's pre deadline Cammy. Maybe Baertschi has matured, had a good off season and slots back in. Maybe Glencross is healthy
Johnny Hockey? Granlund + Reinhart? Wotherspoon challenging for a spot?
Maybe Bollig and Engelland create comfort for Gaudreau, Baertschi

Given what Cammalleri did, maybe his loss is not so great and there is room for guys who care and are developing to step up.

Can't be worse than last year and I look forward to it

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by theoforever

You have to admit that the monumental tank history of Buffalo I wrote in that other thread was true and convincing.

Buffalo, got rid of Ehrhoff further making them worse if that's even possible.
Georges and Meszaros are not as good but combined should even out. Brought back Moulson, he played 44 games with them before but that didn't help much. Gionta is an improvement, McCormick irrelevant. Buffalo, had to reach the floor so additions were not only expected but unavoidable.
They had to add someone didn't they? So, no credit due.
The additions give Sabres some of the missing character, so they could finish with few more points, perhaps they get to 60 points if lucky.

Flames improved in goal by a mile with Hiller. Much weaker with Raymond than Cammy. Engelland is weaker than Butler but a wash, Bollig a wash with TJ. Flames like I predicted before are standing still.

Conclusion:
Calgary is still stronger of the two clubs.
The 25 point difference from 2013/2014 has not been bridged.

Buffalo still wins the tank wars by a mile, mostly because they were already at the absolute bottom of the sewer and Flames didn't make moves to get down to their level.

HOPE THIS HELPS YOU.
-----------------------------------------------------------
BTW Hackey:

You may find this interesting from sportsnet.ca:
"Buffalo Sabres
The team roster’s had been put through a hot bleach since the mid-season hiring of Tim Murray as GM. Buying out defenceman Christian Ehrhoff made it just about complete. Murray sold off everything but the building fixtures, and it looked like he was putting the franchise on course for the 2015 lottery and possibly two shots at Connor McDavid. (Previous GM Darcy Regier had hosed the Islanders for a first-rounder in the Thomas Vanek deal.) But Murray was able to convince some veterans to sign on with the rebuilding program. Matt Moulson, Brian Gionta and Josh Gorges don’t put the team on course for the top eight in the East, but they’ll stand as role models for the next-gen Sabres."

and from yahoo.sports:

"
TEAMS THAT MADE YOU GO, “Hmmm…”
Buffalo Sabres: Trading a second-rounder for Gorges, who has four years and $15.6 million left on his contract? Signing Gionta for three years and $12.75 million? Signing Moulson for five years and $25 million? Signing defenseman Andrej Meszaros for one year at $4.125 million? GM Tim Murray seems like a smart man with a clear plan to (tank in 2014-15 and then) rebuild, and he had to spend because of the $51 million salary floor. So we’ll give him the benefit of the doubt."

Which team is better is irrelevant even though Buffalo could be better. You said Buffalo was doing everything possible to land McDavid. Other posters said wait till the offseason before making those kinda of judgements since all they really did was trade UFAs which any rebuilding team does. Just like the Flames did last year. As we seen today they added 4 pretty good players. Hardly the actions of a team doing everything they can to finish last. They definitely improved more today than the Flames did. You can justify things however you want just funny how you do. Kind of hypocritical.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Which team is better is irrelevant even though Buffalo could be better. You said Buffalo was doing everything possible to land McDavid. Other posters said wait till the offseason before making those kinda of judgements since all they really did was trade UFAs which any rebuilding team does. Just like the Flames did last year. As we seen today they added 4 pretty good players. Hardly the actions of a team doing everything they can to finish last. They definitely improved more today than the Flames did. You can justify things however you want just funny how you do. Kind of hypocritical.

Buffalo has to get to the floor. What would you want them to do?
Once they sold everyone they have to add again to get to the floor.
The moves they made don't make them a contender for anything but last place. Their improvement is not enough to make a difference, because if you do things right like they did last year you can improve as much as you want and still come with similar result, brilliant.
I keep giving credit to Buffalo, but that's just not enough.

BTW. I know you did read my post that compared Buffalo and Calgary, I proved conclusively that what the two teams were doing was completely different.

[Hackey]

Just because you conclusively proved something in your own head doesn't mean you actually conclusively proved it.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Hackey

As we seen today they added 4 pretty good players. Hardly the actions of a team doing everything they can to finish last. They definitely improved more today than the Flames did.

The NHL doesn't hand out trophies for 'most improved'. Buffalo made major improvements to a team that got 52 points. The Flames made minor adjustments to a team that got 77 points. Did Buffalo add enough to get 25 extra points in the standings? Not bloody likely.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Just because you conclusively proved something in your own head doesn't mean you actually conclusively proved it.

Empty rhetoric, I think you are running out of ammunition.
Tell me where I went wrong as you didn't last time around.
Just for completeness here is a copy of what I wrote:

"A little history:

Buffalo fired Lindy Ruff Feb 20/2013 and replaced him with a guy with 0 NHL experience in Rolston.

Buffalo blow up starts March 30/2013:

March 30/2013 Leopold for picks, UFA
April 01/2013 Regehr for picks, UFA
April 03/2013 Pominville for picks and prospects, none of immediate impact. 1 year left on the deal.
June 30/2013 Sekera for McBain and pick

Many saw these trades as a fire sale and many jokes were floating around, including infomercial Sabres FireSale which you can find on YouTube.
Miller and Vanek trade rumours start prior to the 2013/2014 and Sabres try to move them but it takes time to find Snow. Pominville trade is similar in nature to JBO trade.

Sabres move on the Vanek trade for picks early Oct 27/2013. Snow proves he is an idiot once again. Everyone knows that Moulsen is going to be traded at the deadline for more picks.

Feb 28/2013 Miller and Ott traded for Halak (throw-in), Stewart, prospect and picks;
March 5/2014 Molson traded for picks.

Fire-Sale of monumental proportions!

Record
Buffalo 2009/10 100pts; 2010/11 96pts; 2011/12 89pts; 2012/13 48pts; 2013/14 52pts;
Calgary 2009/10 90pts; 2010/11 94pts; 2011/12 90pts; 2012/13 42pts; 2013/14 77pts;
Sabres dive is extremely noticeable, not so in Flames case.

Some people in this thread have said that Buffalo was weaker than Calgary others that Buffalo had better players. Which one is it?
Buffalo may have had better players but they traded them all for future despite being in less dire circumstance.
Some are saying Sabres should get points for being smart and starting rebuild early. I don't have a problem with that. However, one cannot deny that Sabres made the choice to be bad now in order to have a better future. - TANK

The argument that Buffalo tried to be good in 2013/2014 and somehow underperformed is complete nonsense. The team was being setup to be bad, scorched earth policy in effect. The fact that they were shopping Vanek for futures from day one proves it.

Sabres had chosen to rebuild using scorched earth policy, they didn't have to but wanted to. In my opinion they over did it, to the point that it will take them many years to dig out of the sewer they crawled into, btw. the sewer was occupied by the Oilers. 52 points is a huge hole to get out of.
Monumental tank job.

Sabres will have to get better but this may not be possible without giving up future.
Logical plan is to let the kids develop, get top 2 pick in 2015 and most likely 2016. Considering the current situation they should be much better although most likely not a playoff team by 2017/2018.


On the other hand Flames were forced into the rebuild. Kipper forgot how to stop the puck and retired a year before his contract expired. Iginla would not re-sign despite Flames trying to re-sign him to the last moment. JBo is the only guy they didn't have to trade. Tangs refused to support the rebuild. Flames have made several trades in attempt to stop the bleeding as for example Smid, Russell etc. (something that Sabres did not)
77 points is not bad.

Flames will now do the logical thing and refuse to get better by giving up future.
The plan is to let the kids develop one more year, get another high pick in 2015.
After that Flames are hoping on a rebound in 2015/2016.
I called this unofficial tank job, treading the water for one more year."

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The NHL doesn't hand out trophies for 'most improved'. Buffalo made major improvements to a team that got 52 points. The Flames made minor adjustments to a team that got 77 points. Did Buffalo add enough to get 25 extra points in the standings? Not bloody likely.

Way to handpick a quote but not actually respond to what was being talked about. We were talking about Buffalo trying to do everything they could to land McDavid. Adding Meszaros, Gorges, Moulson, and Gionta doesn't sound like the actions of team doing everything they can to land McDavid. If you disagree we can agree to disagree.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Way to handpick a quote but not actually respond to what was being talked about. We were talking about Buffalo trying to do everything they could to land McDavid. Adding Meszaros, Gorges, Moulson, and Gionta doesn't sound like the actions of team doing everything they can to land McDavid. If you disagree we can agree to disagree.

So, the question is who should they have added to get to the cap floor without jeopardizing the chance to get a top 2 pick and handicap themselves in the long run. And that's only if you believe the additions made a dent in their quest for the last place.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Empty rhetoric, I think you are running out of ammunition.
Tell me where I went wrong as you didn't last time around.
Just for completeness here is a copy of what I wrote:

"A little history:

Buffalo fired Lindy Ruff Feb 20/2013 and replaced him with a guy with 0 NHL experience in Rolston.

Buffalo blow up starts March 30/2013:

March 30/2013 Leopold for picks, UFA
April 01/2013 Regehr for picks, UFA
April 03/2013 Pominville for picks and prospects, none of immediate impact. 1 year left on the deal.
June 30/2013 Sekera for McBain and pick

Many saw these trades as a fire sale and many jokes were floating around, including infomercial Sabres FireSale which you can find on YouTube.
Miller and Vanek trade rumours start prior to the 2013/2014 and Sabres try to move them but it takes time to find Snow. Pominville trade is similar in nature to JBO trade.

Sabres move on the Vanek trade for picks early Oct 27/2013. Snow proves he is an idiot once again. Everyone knows that Moulsen is going to be traded at the deadline for more picks.

Feb 28/2013 Miller and Ott traded for Halak (throw-in), Stewart, prospect and picks;
March 5/2014 Molson traded for picks.

Fire-Sale of monumental proportions!

Record
Buffalo 2009/10 100pts; 2010/11 96pts; 2011/12 89pts; 2012/13 48pts; 2013/14 52pts;
Calgary 2009/10 90pts; 2010/11 94pts; 2011/12 90pts; 2012/13 42pts; 2013/14 77pts;
Sabres dive is extremely noticeable, not so in Flames case.

Some people in this thread have said that Buffalo was weaker than Calgary others that Buffalo had better players. Which one is it?
Buffalo may have had better players but they traded them all for future despite being in less dire circumstance.
Some are saying Sabres should get points for being smart and starting rebuild early. I don't have a problem with that. However, one cannot deny that Sabres made the choice to be bad now in order to have a better future. - TANK

The argument that Buffalo tried to be good in 2013/2014 and somehow underperformed is complete nonsense. The team was being setup to be bad, scorched earth policy in effect. The fact that they were shopping Vanek for futures from day one proves it.

Sabres had chosen to rebuild using scorched earth policy, they didn't have to but wanted to. In my opinion they over did it, to the point that it will take them many years to dig out of the sewer they crawled into, btw. the sewer was occupied by the Oilers. 52 points is a huge hole to get out of.
Monumental tank job.

Sabres will have to get better but this may not be possible without giving up future.
Logical plan is to let the kids develop, get top 2 pick in 2015 and most likely 2016. Considering the current situation they should be much better although most likely not a playoff team by 2017/2018.


On the other hand Flames were forced into the rebuild. Kipper forgot how to stop the puck and retired a year before his contract expired. Iginla would not re-sign despite Flames trying to re-sign him to the last moment. JBo is the only guy they didn't have to trade. Tangs refused to support the rebuild. Flames have made several trades in attempt to stop the bleeding as for example Smid, Russell etc. (something that Sabres did not)
77 points is not bad.

Flames will now do the logical thing and refuse to get better by giving up future.
The plan is to let the kids develop one more year, get another high pick in 2015.
After that Flames are hoping on a rebound in 2015/2016.
I called this unofficial tank job, treading the water for one more year."

I'm not going to try and argue with someone who's homer glasses are so red they can't even see through them. We can agree to disagree.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I'm not going to try and argue with someone who's homer glass are so red they can't even see through them. We can agree to disagree.

So, we end at an insult.
I was being objective in the evaluation of the situation.

BTW. I have been critical of Flames on many occasions.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by theoforever

So, the question is who should they have added to get to the cap floor without jeopardizing the chance to get a top 2 pick and handicap themselves in the long run. And that's only if you believe the additions made a dent in their quest for the last place.

Your right. They added those players specifically because they knew they would bring them to the cap floor but allow them to finish last. I'm glad we have Tim Murray's right hand man to give us all the inside scoop.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Your right. They added those players specifically because they knew they would bring them to the cap floor but allow them to finish last. I'm glad we have Tim Murray's right hand man to give us all the inside scoop.

You misunderstood what I said

I wrote: "So, the question is who should they have added to get to the cap floor without jeopardizing the chance to get a top 2 pick and handicap themselves in the long run. And that's only if you believe the additions made a dent in their quest for the last place."

Implication is
1. They did good additions to improve the club.
2. Therefore, tell me who should they have picked instead in order to get to the floor and not get better.

[Hackey]

Engellend.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Engellend.

Complete overpayment, but apparently 10 teams wanted to add him, GOD knows why. However, Hiller more than makes up for that.

Once again Flames were 25 points better.
Once again threading the water.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by theoforever

On the other hand Flames were forced into the rebuild. Kipper forgot how to stop the puck and retired a year before his contract expired. Iginla would not re-sign despite Flames trying to re-sign him to the last moment. JBo is the only guy they didn't have to trade. Tangs refused to support the rebuild. Flames have made several trades in attempt to stop the bleeding as for example Smid, Russell etc. (something that Sabres did not)

Kipper could stop the puck fine. Look at team D

[Completely]

Buffao improved its team, they added players that even if they aren't superstars they SHOULD get more then 52 points. Besides shouldn't we be waiting till training camp to make these claims? Or even our western neighbours who look like they are trying to do everything in their power to get into the race?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Complete overpayment, but apparently 10 teams wanted to add him, GOD knows why. However, Hiller more than makes up for that.

Once again Flames were 25 points better.
Once again threading the water.

What does Calgary signing Hiller have to do with Buffalo and their supposed "tanking."

You were up in arms disgusted that Buffalo traded away their players. Fact of the matter was they were brutal with these players. They traded Miller, Moulson, Ott all at the deadline when they were long out of the playoffs and were all UFA. It's what teams do. It's what the Flames did 2 years ago. They even traded Jbo who they didn't have to. To be disgusted by Buffalo trading players at the deadline but being fine with the Flames doing it is a bit hypocritical. Then you claimed it was all part of the master plan to be last for three straight years and land McDavid. Other posters informed you it was one year and wait for the off season before you call them the biggest tankers since the Oilers. You said they would probably do very little. Well they did quite a bit. More than the Flames. So if your going to say they did the bare minimum then you could probably say the same about the Flames. If you don't think your being a bit hypocritical then I don't know what to say. Anyways were derailing this thread like crazy so that's all I'm gonna say going forward.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Kipper could stop the puck fine. Look at team D

True, team D was poor, no zone coverage and a lot of east-west passes.
Don't get me wrong, love Kipper best goalie we ever had and one of the best in the world. A rumor was he hated Hartley and didn't want to comeback because of that.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Way to handpick a quote but not actually respond to what was being talked about. We were talking about Buffalo trying to do everything they could to land McDavid.

It appeared to me that you were talking about Buffalo being less likely to land McDavid than the Flames are.

The fact of the matter is, Buffalo has already pulled off a multi-year tank. The team can improve substantially and still finish last overall.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Hackey

What does Calgary signing Hiller have to do with Buffalo and their supposed "tanking.".

You said Engelland to my question, I addressed that and mentioned Hiller.

Originally Posted by Hackey

You were up in arms disgusted that Buffalo traded away their players. Fact of the matter was they were brutal with these players. .".

Really Buffalo was terrible with those players and Calgary wasn't with theirs?
Buffalo 2009/10 100pts; 2010/11 96pts; 2011/12 89pts; 2012/13 48pts; 2013/14 52pts;
Calgary 2009/10 90pts; 2010/11 94pts; 2011/12 90pts; 2012/13 42pts; 2013/14 77pts;

Originally Posted by Hackey

They traded Miller, Moulson, Ott all at the deadline when they were long out of the playoffs and were all UFA. It's what teams do. It's what the Flames did 2 years ago.They even traded Jbo who they didn't have to. .".

Yeah, but they traded Pommer and Vanek before that.
You can see the dates of trades in my post.
I already addressed Pommer and JBo with '=' sign.
All other trades were addressed as well.

Biggest tank already happened in 2013/2014, what do you want me to wait for? Right, the continuation in 2014/2015.

You are not reading my posts just saying things over and over despite the fact I have given evidence in previous posts.

Anyway, I had enough. Believe what you want.