Bob McKenzie's Draft Ranking - June 23 5:30PM MT - TSN

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Some drama stemming from swagger for the game is better than a room full of quiet guys who go about their days trying not to step on anybody's toes and say the 'right' things (the same, boring answers to everything). Which is apparently what we have now.

I wouldn't mind having some character here again. At least Phaneuf brought that, in a fun and entertaining way for fans.

I'd actually like to see our guys genuinely piss off players on rival teams. Even Van/Edm games are getting too pedestrian in recent seasons (outside of the Tortorella stuff).

If swagger was the only concern with Ho-Sang, he wouldn't be considered a possible second round pick.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by ignite09

Yup, if Simmonds was the only one with a problem with Ho-Sang that might mean something. Ignoring the majority of scouts on the matter though seems like voluntary ignorance.

I'm referring to the Simmons article not to Ho-Sang's reputation.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Lets see, either I take a hockey players word or Steve Simmons' word. Since Simmons' isn't worth anything, I'll side with the hockey player.

Even though we have scouts from late 1st round pick teams who have no interest after interviewing him?

They must have been influenced by Simmons

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I'm referring to the Simmons article not to Ho-Sang's reputation.

Glad you don't have jury duty, there is a lot more evidence than that one article.

[fatso]

Re: the Harlem Globetrotter comment. It did strike me as odd in the original article. Why would Ho-Sang be singled out with that kind of a comment when there are lots of others ways to criticize his 'dangling'? Pretty clear in his view race is at least a factor as to why he's misunderstood. If his comments are true, and no reason to think they aren't, his race is certainly a factor as to how he's treated.

That said, I don't think Ho-Sang was at all implying the coaching staff was racist. I don't think he's that simplistic. In fact, I think he may be too articulate for his own good which may be why he needs to always get 'the last word' (per the other article). Rather, I think the comment was just another component to his 'I'm so out-of-the-box the hockey world just doesn't get me' sense of self. I also think that's what Simmons was suggesting in including it in the article.

[bluejays]

The Ho-Sang stuff is bull. The guy is simply bucking the trend and creating a brand for himself. Simply put, I don't care. Having different personalities on the team is good. The question is, what do his teammates think of him. None of these articles paint him as a bad teammate or a dirty player. The talent is apparently there, so at this point I'd treat him as any other player - just one with a personal brand. No biggie.

[Hockey_Ninja]

I have a feeling that Ekblad might fall. He ain't making it past Edmonton though.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by fatso

Re: the Harlem Globetrotter comment. It did strike me as odd in the original article. Why would Ho-Sang be singled out with that kind of a comment when there are lots of others ways to criticize his 'dangling'? Pretty clear in his view race is at least a factor as to why he's misunderstood. If his comments are true, and no reason to think they aren't, his race is certainly a factor as to how he's treated.

That said, I don't think Ho-Sang was at all implying the coaching staff was racist. I don't think he's that simplistic. In fact, I think he may be too articulate for his own good which may be why he needs to always get 'the last word' (per the other article). Rather, I think the comment was just another component to his 'I'm so out-of-the-box the hockey world just doesn't get me' sense of self. I also think that's what Simmons was suggesting in including it in the article.

Perhaps, but what's wrong with making an association based on skin color? Might be a bit inaccurate or silly but not really harmful. My skin color isn't white and people always associated me with famous Asian martial artists, that in itself didn't prevent me from being given equal opportunities in academia or getting playing time in a rec rugby team in Canada.

The issue I had in his comment is that this whole discrimination thing has become so sensitive that the line between making an observation versus actual racist discrimination is completely blurred, and only people of color are given that privilege.

Not that I claim to know everything behind Ho-Sang's scene, but if this was the only issue, it really wasn't worth mentioning.

[FlamesAddiction]

I have used the "Harlem Globetrotter" reference a lot to describe players and teams that show off or do meaningless stunts in a game to make things look harder than they should. I have seen other people use it a lot as well. It has nothing to do with skin colour, it has to do with the fact that the Harlem Globetrotters symbolize that (and quite deliberately for that matter). I recall people saying the same thing about Rob Schremp.

Just to add, I would not think twice about using our 34th pick to draft Ho-Sang. There have been a lot of good players that start off their career as cocky teenagers. Could you imagine if the stupid stuff you said and did as a teenager was under the microscope like it is with a junior hockey player?

[PeteMoss]

This is the exact reason PK Subban fell to the 2nd round. He was clearly a top talent in the OHL when he was drafted, but he was cocky (and not white). If you can get talent you should draft him.

If he's too much of a headcase, he can be traded or can be kept in the minors. Its not like the organization is going to explode because a guy has an attitude.

[Read Only]

PK Subban fell to the second round for the same reason he didn't see a minute of ice in any game that mattered in the Olympics, he was a reckless, defensively questionable player.

The "not white comments" are ridiculous and offensive.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I think Ho Sang has a victim complex. If an organization is looking for players that are strong of character and are good for the team, they should stay as far away from individuals who display a victim complex. They will tear a team to pieces. Ho Sang would be on my DND list.

[kehatch]

If Ho Sang was a basket ball player or a foot ball player nobody would have a problem with him. Hockey people are so stuffy. Like my summer cold. Gross.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by kehatch

If Ho Sang was a basket ball player or a foot ball player nobody would have a problem with him. Hockey people are so stuffy. Like my summer cold. Gross.

Johnny Football said all the right things on the field, was a good teammate (unlike Ho Sang) and seemed like a coachable kid and many teams had a problem with him.

Lance Stephonson has done a lot of the stupid, selfish things that Ho Sang does and there are a ton of questions about what will happen with him because teams don\t want him.

The hockey people are so stuffy/stuck in their ways has little to no basis in reality. What they are stuck in is tryig to win and create the best team possible and selfish guys who are unwilling to work with the team don't help you win.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Read Only

Johnny Football said all the right things on the field, was a good teammate (unlike Ho Sang) and seemed like a coachable kid and many teams had a problem with him.

Lance Stephonson has done a lot of the stupid, selfish things that Ho Sang does and there are a ton of questions about what will happen with him because teams don\t want him.

The hockey people are so stuffy/stuck in their ways has little to no basis in reality. What they are stuck in is tryig to win and create the best team possible and selfish guys who are unwilling to work with the team don't help you win.

Have you ever heard a hockey interview, heard an old school GM speak, or watched the off ice game in general? Burke himself said Hockey players should be humble.

You can make a case Ho Sang isn't a good pick and that it goes beyond his exuberance. But you can't make a case that the hockey culture (and it's people) are a stuffy lot.

[Read Only]

Subban is a outspoken against the tradiotion guy and he has won the Norris, made Team canada and looks like he will get 7+ million dollars a year for 5+ years. Doesn't seem like he has been hurt, held back or marganilized one bit by stuffy hockey guys.

Evander Kane had numerous red flags in junior and over his career and still went 4th overall, is the main guy in Winnipeg and mentioned as a big target for many teams if he is on the block. Hard to see how he is being held back.

AO goes against pretty much everything the stuffy NHL guys like and has been the face of the NHL for 5+ years now.

I think NHL (and every other sports leagues) guy prefer to have safe, conservative, respectful guys who don't get in trouble, say the right things and cause the team 0 headaches but the actions of NHL guys show that while they may talk like stuffy guys their actions don't give a crap when it comes to signing, playing or drafting these guys if it looks like they can help them win.

[Burke Salad]

I have often refferred to the Sedin Twins going all Harlem globetrotters on the Flames defense, and those are two of the whitest human beings alive.

[19Yzerman19]

Originally Posted by Read Only

Subban is a outspoken against the tradiotion guy and he has won the Norris, made Team canada and looks like he will get 7+ million dollars a year for 5+ years. Doesn't seem like he has been hurt, held back or marganilized one bit by stuffy hockey guys.
Evander Kane had numerous red flags in junior and over his career and still went 4th overall, is the main guy in Winnipeg and mentioned as a big target for many teams if he is on the block. Hard to see how he is being held back.

I'm assuming this is a joke? These guys are criticized CONSTANTLY. Kane has just about been run out of Winnipeg on a rail.

AO goes against pretty much everything the stuffy NHL guys like and has been the face of the NHL for 5+ years now.

You mean he hasn't been the face of the NHL for five years. Was this post written in 2009? Not to mention you get away with a lot when you're the league's top goalscorer...

the actions of NHL guys show that while they may talk like stuffy guys their actions don't give a crap when it comes to signing, playing or drafting these guys if it looks like they can help them win.

I'd sure hope so but the talk in here seems to suggest otherwise.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by 19Yzerman19

I'm assuming this is a joke? These guys are criticized CONSTANTLY. Kane has just about been run out of Winnipeg on a rail.

If constant criticism is all they face then what is the big deal?

Kane's big problem in Winnipeg was when he skipped curfew and potential hurt the club's chances at wining by ignoring rules and not being ready to play. When all the other stuff happened off ice the team kept putting him out there no problem. The team didn't take action until his behaviour had potential on ice reprecussions.

They aren't being held back from developing, aren't being held back from getting paid and aren't getting held back from teams, awards etc.

You mean he hasn't been the face of the NHL for five years. Was this post written in 2009? Not to mention you get away with a lot when you're the league's top goalscorer...

That is the point. Winning, talent trump stuffiness all the time. So well the NHL guys may preach one thing their actions show another and AO being allowed to do what he does because he scores a lot shows this.

[MissTeeks]

Hmmm, I usually only reference the Washington Generals when I watch hockey. It's usually a comment about the Oilers defense.

[Igster]

The Oilers will draft Ho Sang and we will laugh. End of story.