Lombardi was told not to hire Sutter in L.A.

[transplant99]

Example #1 why you let hockey guys make hockey decisions and ownership types should stay far away.....but glad that he is in Toronto now.

When Dean Lombardi was about to hire Darryl Sutter as coach of the Los Angeles Kings, he did what all general managers must do.

He went to his boss and informed him of the move he was prepared to make.

The conversation didn’t go well.

Lombardi was told in no uncertain terms that hiring Sutter wasn’t the right move, may be “the worst decision you’ve ever made” and speculated it “will end up costing you your job.”

And the boss who doubted Lombardi’s wisdom? His name: Tim Leiweke.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/06/2...-darryl-sutter

[neo45]

Sutter is a great hockey mind and his reputation as a bad GM is pretty undeserved.

[Major Major]

Best coach since Bowman. The things he did on the way to all of his cups and finals is downright legendary. I don't know what qualifies Tim liweke in his role as sports President guru guy, but this kind of thing makes you look like a big dummy. Also, doesn't he already want out of Toronto? Seems like a bit of an insubstantial flake.

[sharkov]

Dean Lombardi was a joke until 2012. Now he has the right to be smug

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by neo45

Sutter is a great hockey mind and his reputation as a bad GM is pretty undeserved.

You have the right to your opinion. In my opinion he was bad and that it is deserved.

He is a great hockey mind as far as coaching goes though, I think everyone would agree there.

[Cole436]

The three complaints I think you can have with Sutter were

1) His late round drafting from 2004-2009.
2) Reliance on aging FA's
3) The Phaneuf trade

Dion didn't really give Darryl a choice, and the combination of the loss of Phaneuf and the trade return cut the legs off from this organization.

Outside of the last year of Darryl's GM tenure, I can't think of a single trade (Jokinen excluded) that wasn't a benefit for the organization or a contract that was an overpayment.

[Vinny01]

I think a lot of hockey people panned the move initially because of how Sutter performed as a GM. His last 2 years coaching prior to LA resulted in a game 7 SCF loss and a game 7 loss in the first round (Flames did win the division that year)


Lombardi made 2 great moves in 2012 in hiring Sutter and trading for Carter which resulted in 2 Stanley cups in 3 years and 10 playoff series wins in 3 years

[Samiz]

Originally Posted by Cole436

Dion didn't really give Darryl a choice

What do you mean by this? Did he request a trade?

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by Cole436

The three complaints I think you can have with Sutter were

1) His late round drafting from 2004-2009.
2) Reliance on aging FA's
3) The Phaneuf trade

Dion didn't really give Darryl a choice, and the combination of the loss of Phaneuf and the trade return cut the legs off from this organization.

Outside of the last year of Darryl's GM tenure, I can't think of a single trade (Jokinen excluded) that wasn't a benefit for the organization or a contract that was an overpayment.

I think he did decent in the later rounds. It was his first round picks where he missed. Shows you how much the draft can be a crap shoot.

Prust - 3rd round pick
Bouma- 3rd round pick
Brodie- 4th round pick
Aulie- 4th round pick
Ortio- 6th round pick
Reinhart- 3rd round pick
Arnold- 4th round pick
Ferland- 5th round pick

[Vulcan]

Personally I think Sutter was too tied up by King and the owners to literally 'make the playoffs' or hit the road to develop the team the way he wanted. At one time he said that the Cup run screwed up the team development as it raised unrealistic expectations. This pressure forced him into sometimes making desperate trades. Combine this with rumoured King interference and I think Sutter gets a bad rap for his work as GM.

[Brick]

I believe that there was too much meddling in the later stages when Darryl was GM. He was made to be the scapegoat, undeservedly so. As far as his draft record goes, it would be reflective of the scouting at the time.

It's easy to cheer for the Kings, as my second team, with Darryl at the helm. He's an awesome coach and it's nice to see him strut his stuff.

[Zulu29]

Heh, now he's running the make beliefs. Have fun with that Toronto.

[pylon]

I sill believe the Phaneuf trade was one of his best moves. The return at the time was sucky, but thank god his Spidey senses went off on Dion and got him the hell out of here. I would rather have a bad return for Dion, than Dion.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by pylon

I sill believe the Phaneuf trade was one of his best moves. The return at the time was sucky, but thank god his Spidey senses went off on Dion and got him the hell out of here. I would rather have a bad return for Dion, than Dion.

You might be right. I think the part that stings a bit though is knowing we probably could have got a lot better for Dion. His stock was pretty high at the time.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Hackey

You might be right. I think the part that stings a bit though is knowing we probably could have got a lot better for Dion. His stock was pretty high at the time.

I don't disagree with that, but at the time people were coining it as Gilmour for Leeman V 2.0. Not even close.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Hackey

You might be right. I think the part that stings a bit though is knowing we probably could have got a lot better for Dion. His stock was pretty high at the time.

Most of the GMs in the league didn't even know Phaneuf was available. Sutter was in over his head as a GM.

[OldDutch]

Sutter as a coach I have always firmly believed was elite. He does have his detractors however, and it probably comes from his lack of charisma.

As a GM, the guy did come unhinged at the end. However, I think it wasn't only him, as the stories of ownership and King interfering probably had a good deal to do with those bad returns. On balance the guy got Kipper, for a 2nd rounder. That is pretty amazing in itself, and the Flames probably don't get to the 2004 final, attract the free agents they did, and probably are a bubble team (EDIT: probably miss the playoffs) from 2005-2009.

So back to the point of this thread, good to see Sutter the coach prove these guys wrong, especially when we have learned what we have about his private life. He is a character person, and someone I would love to have coach the Flames again (although it won't happen). Hope he wins another 2 cups, he deserves it.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Example #1 why you let hockey guys make hockey decisions and ownership types should stay far away.....but glad that he is in Toronto now.







http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/06/2...-darryl-sutter

And example #2 why you shouldn't believe anything Steve Simmons writes. He doesn't quote anybody but puts quotes around comments. This to me is just Simmons using this as a shot at Lieweke. Title should said "speculation that Lombardi was told not to hire Sutter".

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Personally I think Sutter was too tied up by King and the owners to literally 'make the playoffs' or hit the road to develop the team the way he wanted. At one time he said that the Cup run screwed up the team development as it raised unrealistic expectations. This pressure forced him into sometimes making desperate trades. Combine this with rumoured King interference and I think Sutter gets a bad rap for his work as GM.

Well there were rumors Sutter was going to step back behind the bench instead of hiring Brent (which was what King and co wanted). Gotta wonder how that might have turned out at the time...surely couldn't have gone any worse.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by pylon

I sill believe the Phaneuf trade was one of his best moves. The return at the time was sucky, but thank god his Spidey senses went off on Dion and got him the hell out of here. I would rather have a bad return for Dion, than Dion.

I'm not buying that. While there were plenty of signs that Phaneuf needed to go, his reputation around the league was still fairly good. He was definitely no where near the "dump at all costs" stage, and still had some good value...highly touted defenseman like that always get a second chance. The worst thing was when other GM's were saying they they had no idea Phaneuf was even on the market. Talk about terrible asset management.

I wanted him gone as much as the next guy, but the return was absolutely trash...and it didn't have to be. That trade set this franchise back a good two years because they wanted the wrong types of assets coming back. It's a trade that needed to happen, but it was executed all wrong.

Sutter's accomplishments as a coach are legendary. His GM duties on the other hand are highly suspect.