[News] Sportsnet's Top 30 - Draft 2014

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Say they do pick Richie at #4, imagine Richie and Poirier down the right side? Oofta.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

What I don't understand (moreso than Ritchie at 3) is Reinhart at 5.

What has he done since the season ended to drop from a top 2 spot?

He was great in the playoffs and he's one of the smartest players I've seen in a couple draft years.

He's my #1, in front of Ekblad.

Other than his hockey sense, he doesn't have any standout qualities that project to an elite NHLer. Not especially big or strong. Not especially gritty or intense. Not especially fast.

He's a safe pick. But I don't think he has the upside of the other prospects.

[Ashasx]

Crosby isn't very big, he's not the fastest, he doesn't have the best shot.

The difference is he's the smartest player in the league. Hockey IQ is what separates the good from the elite.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Crosby isn't very big, he's not the fastest, he doesn't have the best shot.

The difference is he's the smartest player in the league. Hockey IQ is what separates the good from the elite.

Really?

[AC]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Really?

Which part are you objecting to?

I'd say what Ashasx said is bang on.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by AC

Which part are you objecting to?

I'd say what Ashasx said is bang on.

Reinhart lacks elite skill. So let's compare him to Crosby to say it is okay. I say again. Really?

[AC]

I think you're jumping the gun there.

Ashasx seems to be arguing that while yes, Reinhart doesn't have elite skill (though I think the argument could be made for his playmaking ability), its his hockey sense that will make him a very good player and worthy of a top 4 pick.

As recapped by Sureloss earlier, here's what the Buffalo AGM had to say on Reinhart:

• hasn't seen a guy that can make plays like Sam can in the last 10-15 years
• his playmaking ability, sees the ice really well
• knows how long to hold the puck, when to pass, when to shoot
• uncanny hockey sense

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by AC

I think you're jumping the gun there.

Ashasx seems to be arguing that while yes, Reinhart doesn't have elite skill (though I think the argument could be made for his playmaking ability), its his hockey sense that will make him a very good player and worthy of a top 4 pick.

I think you are reading too much into a one word answer. Perhaps jumping the gun.

But first, comparing Reinhart to Crosby is silly. Second, saying that Crosby lacks an elite shot, is slow, or doesn't play big is silly. Third, it is a completely legitimate criticism of Reinhart. He has elite smarts and vision. But the rest of the tool set (unlike Crosby's) is par or less and his skating is a real concern. He will be a good player. But there is justification at putting him at 5 overall.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Reinhart lacks elite skill. So let's compare him to Crosby to say it is okay. I say again. Really?

Reinhart lacks elite skill?

If that is the case then everyone in the draft lacks elite skill.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Read Only

Reinhart lacks elite skill?

If that is the case then everyone in the draft lacks elite skill.

Back that up. That is pretty consistent criticism of him relative to the other top prospects.

Reinhart is a great prospect. His intelligence and vision will make him a good NHL player. I also like that he is a RH shot. But the legitimate question is will that be enough to overcome his average to good (not elite) skill set, poor skating, and lack of physical play and make him an elite player? Obviously it does at junior. But will it in the NHL? It's a fair question.

I think he could go first overall. I also think he could slip some in a flat draft and I think that rating him at fifth overall is defensible. Which is what the discussion was regarding.

[Read Only]

I would say intelligence is what gives him his elite skill set. His passing is better than what I have seen from any other prospect (although not seen a ton of Bennett). His skating is better than Draisatl's and not a concern at all. He may not be as physical as Bennett is but again he is not soft and won't get pushed around.

I think their are individuals who have better individual skills than him (i.e Bennett grit/defense, Dal Colle shot, Ritchie physical play) but from what I have seen and read don't see anyone who is a better offensive guy or who has better offensive upside and his passing and vision, in my view, is better than anyone else in the draft.

I think he could slip as well and don't think ranking him 5th is a crime but it makes 0 sense and see 0 reason that Draisatl, Ritchie or Dal Colle would be ranked ahead of him.

[kehatch]

But does he look as good in the NHL. He doesn't have a great shot, great agility, elite speed, great puck handling, he isn't great at defending the puck, etc.

Remember, not being great doesn't make him bad. And smarts compensates for a lot. It just compensates for less as the competition gets better.

Bouwmeester is one of the smartest D out there. Other than the mobility I see Reinhart as a lot like Bouwmeester at forward. I see Bennett as a Giordano. Imperfect comparisons. But pretty fair I think.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by kehatch

But does he look as good in the NHL. He doesn't have a great shot, great agility, elite speed, great puck handling, he isn't great at defending the puck, etc.

Remember, not being great doesn't make him bad. And smarts compensates for a lot. It just compensates for less as the competition gets better.

Bouwmeester is one of the smartest D out there. Other than the mobility I see Reinhart as a lot like Bouwmeester at forward. I see Bennett as a Giordano. Imperfect comparisons. But pretty fair I think.

I have mainly seen Reinhart and Draisatl, so hard to compare with Bennett, but I would say Reinhart for example translates much, much better than Draisatl to the NHL because his smarts have him making the right play rather than just being a little biger than everyone else in junior.

I see 0 reason why Reinhart wouldn't translate to the NHL at all. I think he has better than average, if not great puck handling, his agility is also pretty near great as well. I think you are selling Reinhart pretty short here and most if not all other top guys this year have the same questions if not more about them.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Read Only

I have mainly seen Reinhart and Draisatl, so hard to compare with Bennett, but I would say Reinhart for example translates much, much better than Draisatl to the NHL because his smarts have him making the right play rather than just being a little biger than everyone else in junior.

I see 0 reason why Reinhart wouldn't translate to the NHL at all. I think he has better than average, if not great puck handling, his agility is also pretty near great as well. I think you are selling Reinhart pretty short here and most if not all other top guys this year have the same questions if not more about them.

That's why different people have different opinions. Saying a guy is a top 5 pick in a flat draft isn't really selling him short though. If Reinhart had the puck game, speed, and physical play we would be talking about an elite prospect like Mackinnon or McDavid. It is a lack of those things that holds him back.

I value physical play and speed. It's why I have him as five on my list. Some teams will agree with me. Some people will agree with me. Some won't.

I think it's totally fair to have Reinhart at first or second. I also think it's fair to have him at five.

[Read Only]

I don't think it is crazy to have him at 5th I just don't think much at all of Draisatl and think that Dal Colle and Ritchie are clearly a level below.

I think there is a top 3: Ekblad, Bennett, Reinhart (Probably in that order if I ranked them)

Next group: Dal Colle, Ritchie, Drasaitl (again ranked like that)

Then everyone else.

So it doesn't make sense to me that Reinhart would be 5th when in my view he is clearly 3rd at worst but as you say different opinions from people especially in a draft which seems to have the top guys as 8's/9's out of 10's and no 10\10's.

I understand he may not have elite level skill compared to Crosby, Stamkos, Tavares but from what I have seen he does have more skill than the other guys in this draft.

[MissTeeks]

“@coreypronman: That's a decent chance. Scouts are heavily divided on him (some 6-10, or 16-20) RT @JGaez28: @coreypronman how about Ritchie outside top 10?”

[kehatch]

Fair enough. I have it ranked Bennett, Ekblad, Ritchie, Draisaitl, Reinhart, Dal Colle. But some of that stems from Flames needs as I don't like C filled with Monahan, Backlund, and Reinhart. Especially give our prospects on wing.

Realistically though the Flames will have a limited decision. There are five (maybe six) guys that they could pick at 4. Chances are three of them will be gone. I am happy with any of those top 5 guys so draft day will be a happy affair as long as we don't go crazy.

[mile]

Originally Posted by kehatch

But does he look as good in the NHL. He doesn't have a great shot, great agility, elite speed, great puck handling, he isn't great at defending the puck, etc.

Remember, not being great doesn't make him bad. And smarts compensates for a lot. It just compensates for less as the competition gets better.

I don't think Reinhart's skating is as poor as you are making it out to be, and I certainly think Reinhart is one of the most competitive players in the draft.

If you think the game at the same level he does, he can still be an great goal scorer or playmaker despite lacking an elite shot or skill.

Always being positioned in the right spot and anticipating where the puck will be a few steps ahead of everyone else still makes him a dangerous finisher around the net despite his lack of shot - this is in a way similar to someone like Monahan who doesn't have a big shot but is still a great finisher.

Reinhart does remind me a lot of Toews as well in a way - They're both quietly competitive, not necessarily physical or gritty, don't possess a true elite skill in one part of their game (except for leadership in Toews case), but they both think the game so well that they are dangerous scorers and passers regardless of whether or not they actually have the elite shot and puckhandling required.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by kehatch

But does he look as good in the NHL. He doesn't have a great shot, great agility, elite speed, great puck handling, he isn't great at defending the puck, etc.

Actually most scouts say that Reinhart does have a great shot.

[Hart50]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Actually most scouts say that Reinhart does have a great shot.

I've read him described as a natural sniper with a tremendous shot who may be better suited on the wing in the pros.