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Old 06-13-2014, 09:51 AM   #341
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Yeah, there was a bit of a grab. I can see why it was given, but I think it was a bit harsh.
I think Brazil would have got one in the remaining 20 min irregardless.
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:52 AM   #342
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I'll be cheering for Mexico and Spain today because I have them in my pool. Should be some good games today!
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:56 AM   #343
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Mexicans are singing too fast!
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:56 AM   #344
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Oh man it's raining hard. Go Mexico
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:59 AM   #345
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Times like this make me wish my PS4 could also have a snap feature...
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Old 06-13-2014, 09:59 AM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinordi View Post
What a terrible way to open the tournament. Soccer is such a circus act. Two terrible calls leading a -2 goal differential for Croatia. I'm not a Croatia fan but seeing a win like that is just brutal.
I'm sorry, but you're just wrong. Yes, most commentators are also wrong, but it's pretty clear that both the penalty kick was absolutely the right call, as was calling the play dead before Croatias goal.

First of all, the Croatian quite clearly deliberately tackled the Brazilian goalie. It was actually a great call, very difficult to make in that situation and really shows why that japanese guy was chosen for this game. He had both the guts to make the right call and he saw the infraction which was not obvious from every angle.

As for the penalty kick, let me explain how soccer is not hockey and how this relates to "diving" and that penalty kick.

1) Opposite to how it is in hockey, FIFA has clearly mandated that players in scoring positions are to be MORE protected than players further away. So unlike in hockey, where normal contact rules don't apply in goalfront scrums, in soccer they should at least in theory be especially stringently applied. Yes, I'm aware that the actual refereeing styles vary from country to country, but that has for quite a while now been a FIFA mandate. FIFA also uses the World Cup as a forum to unify the refereeing styles. This is especially true for the opening matches. You will most likely see more "light" holding calls during this tournament.

(The ref had also already talked to the Croations about the holding during the many corner kicks, so really it shouldn't have come as any surprise. The Croatians are just sore losers, despite being clearly outmatched in the game.)

As for the card:

Here you have it in FIFA's own words:
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/worl...8/law12-en.pdf

Quote:
Referees are reminded to make an early intervention and to deal firmly with holding offences especially inside the penalty area at corner kicks and free kicks.
To deal with these situations:
• the referee must warn any player holding an opponent before the ball is in
play
• caution the player if the holding continues before the ball is in play
award a direct free kick or penalty kick and caution the player if it happens once the ball is in play
No two ways about it. If you call a penalty kick for holding, you flash the card.

Actually, you might as well have carded the Croatian based on this:

Quote:
Cautions for unsporting behaviour
There are different circumstances when a player must be cautioned for
unsporting behaviour, e.g. if a player:
• commits a foul for the tactical purpose of interfering with or breaking up a
promising attack
• holds an opponent for the tactical purpose of pulling the opponent away
from the ball or preventing the opponent from getting to the ball
The Croatian clearly pulled Fred back with both hands before the goal. He did try to be clever about it and only pull him back enough to make it difficult for him to play, but not enough to tackle him down. It's very smart play, the hallmark of good defensemen. 9 times out of 10 he gets away with that. However it's still clearly a foul, and crying because you occasionally get called for it is just stupid.



Now let's get to the "dive"...



2) Unlike hockey, soccer does not have delayed penalties. If a foul is not called immediately, you can't call it later.

This is actually much more significant difference than most people realize. If Fred keeps playing when he's being held, it's effectively a message to the referee that he wants the ref to apply advantage. ("Applying advantage" is when you don't call the foul because it would actually be more beneficial to the team that fouled.)

So, when you say Fred "dived", you should remember that his choices in the situation where effectively:
a) try to be the hero and score, probably denying your team a penalty kick
b) go down and let the ref make the call

Was there embellishment? Sure. But it doesn't change the fact that what Fred did was absolutely the right thing to do in that situation. Every succesful soccer country understands that this is simply how the rules work.

("Succesful" does not include for example England. (Or Finland for that matter.) Their frowning upon "dives" and love of "rough play" has pretty much lead to a situation where if you're going to have a long career as a high-skill player, your best options are to be a Rooney-type tank or getting out of Premier League like David Beckham.)

"Fighting through tackles" in soccer is not "manly". It's stupid, often selfish, makes refereeing hard, and for strikers is a great way to have a short and injury-filled career. (Anyone remember that young stud Michael Owen?)

It's how the game works and has proven to work very well. Yes, it's a bit of a mind-bender if you mostly just watch hockey, but really there's no point in getting furious about it.


Of course there are actual dives that were not due to fouls, but those are much more rare than what people who don't get the sport generally think.


To sum it up:

Well reffed game, and more entertaining than most tournament opening matches. They're often among the worst games in the tournament.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:01 AM   #347
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Can you clarify? You believe it was the correct call?
He most definitely grabbed him. That isn't even in question and he has spouts some crap about not having even touched him. He grabbed him. Then he lies about it.

I know that expecting anyone in sports these days to have even the slightest bit of character is asking way too much. They will do literally anything for a buck. Fill their body with roids etc., cheat any way they can find to do so. Then whine about every call.

As for the call he did grab him so by the rules it's a penalty. Of course with the rampant cheating going on these days it's questioned because it's too "harsh" . As in well yes he broke the rules but not that badly so the ref should know that the rules aren't really the rules. Plus these guys are taught to embellish every single time they are touched so they flop all over the place.

So it's what it has become which is a joke. So the comedy is on Croatia this time. Tough luck for them. They played like crap anyway. Got a lucky goal and it looked like a powerplay virtually the entire game. Justice was served.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:02 AM   #348
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Honestly, unless you're a massive Brazilian homer I can't see how anyone on the planet can say that penalty was the correct call. C'mon........that was terrible.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:05 AM   #349
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Didn't feel that was as much of a grab than a firm hold. Neymar went down too easy from just the left hand on his arm.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:05 AM   #350
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If that penalty call was correct, then there should be about 50 penalties a game.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:06 AM   #351
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A bit nostalgic for the Oz/Chile game as spent a bit of time in Cuiba back in 2000 and probably had one of the most surreal experiences of my life there. One of those ones where I still look back on and question if it really happened.

Short version is, myself and buddy were changing US5K cash with gold dealers on the parallel market. Found ourselves going through a steel door, down a corridor, through another steel door, then another into a small room with two guys in the corner with machine guns pointed at us.
Sat down at a table and did the transaction with a fella opposite. On the table? about 30-40 bars of approx 2x2x4 bars of gold! At the end, he smiled and asked if we wanted to hold one. You know it is going to be heavy but it is heavier than you imagined.

Not the brightest thing we ever done but thankfully it worked out. We had a .. on hindsight, a very bad plan.

And that is my Cuiba ... cool story bro. In the state of Mato Grosso (thick forest) which is absolutely thrashed for agriculture.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:08 AM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan View Post
Honestly, unless you're a massive Brazilian homer I can't see how anyone on the planet can say that penalty was the correct call. C'mon........that was terrible.
But the ref doesn't have the benefit of replay. It LOOKED like the correct call. But it wasn't.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:08 AM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anduril View Post
Times like this make me wish my PS4 could also have a snap feature...
It kind of does if you have a Vita.

Play the PS4 on the handheld, watch the game on the TV.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:09 AM   #354
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Quote:
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But the ref doesn't have the benefit of replay. It LOOKED like the correct call. But it wasn't.
Even live that didn't look like a penalty.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:09 AM   #355
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I wouldnt be shocked if there was some match fixing going on. Imagine if Brazil lost in the opener, those anti-world cup folk would have had a field day with that outcome.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:10 AM   #356
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Long pointless rant...
Dude, you have plenty of Euros and people in this thread who watch European soccer on a regular basis, and have spent considerable time playing it. We understand the rule but there was no tug or pull on the shoulder. Fred was not obstructed in any way by that tap on the shoulder and he certainly didn't have a scoring chance negated by the Croatian defender. He negated it himself by flopping.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:13 AM   #357
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Hey, look, it's Cameroon! Now we can all play "look how many times BAE gets caught out of position."
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:13 AM   #358
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That looked onside to me
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:14 AM   #359
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Well after CBC's awesome job yesterday, I see they've decided to revert to streaming quality from the early 00s.
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:15 AM   #360
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CBC streaming quality is great for me today, better than yesterday actually.
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