Obesity research confirms long-term weight loss almost impossible

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

This article below points out that people who are ashamed of themselves due to their weight are more likely to cope with these feelings BY EATING. While that sounds counter-intuitive, I know that's what I did for two decades. Bullying and shaming does NOT work.

Supposing you're right and it does not help fat inviduals become not fat (or even makes them more likely to maintain or gain fat), it is still possible that stigma reduces fatness by deterring people who are not yet fat from becoming fat.

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Why do you need to call anyone fat in the first place? Why does it matter to you?

As I already stated, having accurate language to talk about things makes life easier for everyone. I'm not using 'fat' as a perjorative version of overweight. They are not synonymous because muscle can put people overweight. I'm not using 'obese' either because one can be fat without being obese.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by SebC

Supposing you're right and it does not help fat inviduals become not fat (or even makes them more likely to maintain or gain fat), it is still possible that stigma reduces fatness by deterring people who are not yet fat from becoming fat.

So you are willing to live with the fact that the already obese will suffer? Screw them. They ain't really human anyway.

[bcsoda]

Originally Posted by V

I found that so unbelievable I had to go looking.

This doesn't agree with your science at all.

http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/obesity/facts.htm



And a more Canadian slant.

http://www.childhoodobesityfoundation.ca/statistics



I might have to check up on your previous attempts at science. This was really weak.

Actually that's a fair point. The source I was looking at was only talking about whether the obesity epidemic was something that was occurring right now, and it appears they were looking at statistics from within the last 15 years, which is probably not the time period you were talking about.

I admit I haven't looked at nearly as much research regarding the increase of obesity over time as I have on other topics, so I'll edit that post to reflect that.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by SebC

Supposing you're right and it does not help fat inviduals become not fat (or even makes them more likely to maintain or gain fat), it is still possible that stigma reduces fatness by deterring people who are not yet fat from becoming fat.

Yay stigma! If the world needs anything, it is more stigma. Obviously the stigma with poverty has stopped people from becoming poor or the stigma with being HIV positive has eradicated HIV.

Originally Posted by SebC

As I already stated, having accurate language to talk about things makes life easier for everyone. I'm not using 'fat' as a perjorative version of overweight.

And for those who use the word f@g to describe gays but don't think that they are using the word as a pejorative...is that ok?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by SebC

Supposing you're right and it does not help fat inviduals become not fat (or even makes them more likely to maintain or gain fat), it is still possible that stigma reduces fatness by deterring people who are not yet fat from becoming fat.

Are you seriously this demented? Between this thread and others, you portray yourself as someone with a pretty severe empathy deficiency.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

So you are willing to live with the fact that the already obese will suffer?

If normalisation is the only way to alleviate that suffering and normalisation will enable the spread of what the WHO calls an epidemic, then yes, I'm willing to live with it. Between bad and worse, I'll choose bad.

Having said that, I'm open to the idea that correlation does not imply correlation with regards to the stigmatisation of smoking. I still think it likely does, given that glamorisation almost certainly has a part in smoking's rise. But if I can dig up solid evidence otherwise then my assumptions are wrong and that would make my conclusions about stigmatisation also wrong, averting the need for collateral damage.

I think we should scrap the dairy quota system too, which will obviously hurt dairy farmers. It's still the right thing to do. Very few things are painless for everyone.

[photon]

There's a vast difference between promoting "big overweight is cool, all the cool kids do it, you'll get a better job, attract more mates, and be better than your peers if you do it" and saying "weight is only one aspect of life, you can still wear nice clothes, have friends, be productive, be healthy, have lots of good qualities, and not be subject to abuse because you are overweight".

Having fat people alive enables the spread of the epidemic, why not kill them then, should be able to live with that. Heck it's bad food that enables the epidemic, why aren't you advocating strict regulations on sugar, salt, and fat content in food?

The cause of the epidemic has nothing to do with "Normalization", so it's just a big red herring, made up to fit what you want based on your own... ideology I guess. Unless you can support with evidence that societies where being overweight is less/more acceptable results in less/more overweight people.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by photon

There's a vast difference between promoting "big overweight is cool, all the cool kids do it, you'll get a better job, attract more mates, and be better than your peers if you do it" and saying "weight is only one aspect of life, you can still wear nice clothes, have friends, be productive, be healthy, have lots of good qualities, and not be subject to abuse because you are overweight".

Having fat people alive enables the spread of the epidemic, why not kill them then, should be able to live with that. Heck it's bad food that enables the epidemic, why aren't you advocating strict regulations on sugar, salt, and fat content in food?

The cause of the epidemic has nothing to do with "Normalization", so it's just a big red herring, made up to fit what you want based on your own... ideology I guess. Unless you can support with evidence that societies where being overweight is less/more acceptable results in less/more overweight people.

Found this:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...-weight-stigma

Results of this research study indicate that, in the weight stigma condition, women who perceived themselves as above average weight consumed significantly more calories than in the control condition.
[...]

Interestingly, women who did not perceive themselves as overweight had significantly higher self-efficacy for controlling their diet in the weight-stigma condition than in the control condition.

Haven't turned up anything on net effect - but since we're talking about weight loss being nearly impossible, one could reason that preventative effects would likely outweigh "curative" effects.

As for why not kill of the fat people... well that's a cure that's worse than the disease. Hierarchy of rights and all that. Obvious thing is obvious!

As for government mandated health restrictions, no thanks again. I'm more about manipulating incentives than outright bans. That approach preserves a greater degree of personal freedom while still moving you towards societal goals.

[photon]

Originally Posted by SebC

Haven't turned up anything on net effect - but since we're talking about weight loss being nearly impossible, one could reason that preventative effects would likely outweigh "curative" effects.

Which is what people have been saying in this thread. But as long as the myth of weight loss being simple is perpetuated then there's no reason to focus on prevention, when prevention should be front and centre.

Originally Posted by SebC

As for why not kill of the fat people... well that's a cure that's worse than the disease. Hierarchy of rights and all that. Obvious thing is obvious!

So what level of ignoring rights and suppressing freedoms is acceptable then? Some people would value freedom above life.

Originally Posted by SebC

As for government mandated health restrictions, no thanks again. I'm more about manipulating incentives than outright bans. That approach preserves a greater degree of personal freedom while still moving you towards societal goals.

Except for the freedoms you want to restrict because they might result in normalization?

Government already mandates tons of health restrictions in the form of limitations and outright bans. Companies can't use sweet sweet cocaine in their foods. Why not let them, people can decide for themselves if they want to get addicted to the cocaine in the high school lunch program food, and if only 5% of cocaine addicts can get off of it, well hey it's possible right?

It's not like we're talking about benign substances, we're talking about things that short circuit the body's ability to self-regulate in the quantities and types that the industry uses. Why should we NOT limit the amount of salt in a kid's grocery store lunch kit to less than the entire daily recommended intake?

It's like scamming people, enough people are vulnerable to scamming that society decides that it should be specifically illegal. Processed food companies are basically scamming the body and society because most people are vulnerable to it. Setting guidelines and targets that those companies have to meet is no different than the other guidelines and targets those companies have to meet in the interest of public health.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by SebC

If normalisation is the only way to alleviate that suffering and normalisation will enable the spread of what the WHO calls an epidemic, then yes, I'm willing to live with it. Between bad and worse, I'll choose bad.

First, you have not proven in any way, shape or form that shaming the obese will prevent ANYONE from becoming overweight. If you have studies, I'd love to see them. You are willing to belittle people (which I'm sure you gain absolutely no joy at all from) on the off chance that it will help someone else?

Secondly, why choose between "bad" (kicking people when they are already down) and "worse" (growing the obesity epidemic) when there is perfectly awesome solution RIGHT IN THE F'ING ARTICLE!?!?!?!?!?! Promoting obese people to exercise and eat proper foods ALMOST TOTALLY NEGATES THE MORBIDITY RISK, no matter what the scale says.

I gather you choose to ignore that option since it doesn't give you the perfectly morally justified shaming you so seem to advocate gleefully.

[jammies]

I'm not interested in shaming fat people, but I'm not interested in enabling their obesity either. Nobody (well - maybe SebC) is proclaiming open season for mockery, but feeling aggrieved because "nobody understands how hard it is" is quite simply wrong: some of us do understand, and what we understand is that your desire to be a healthy weight is less than your desire for food and disinclination to exercise.

I personally have chronic pain issues when I work out, and a long history of really crappy eating habits which had me around 245 lbs (I am 6'3"), yet somehow I've manage to stay in the 185-195 lb range for years. I know it's hard, but if you think you're a special case who just has it so much harder than anyone else, then you're very likely wrong. It's very rarely a case of people being incapable of doing it - like never being able to do calculus because you're just not mathematically inclined - but more that people don't see the pay-off as being worth the extraordinary effort.

[Dion]

My pituitary glad secretes very low levels of growth hormone (HGH) due to a tumour which has lead to lower energy levels and marketly decreased metabolism. I'm know there are many others like me that have the same problem when dealing with trying to loose weight. It makes the task much harder and at times it can be depressing when you exercise on a regular basis, try to eat right and still struggle.

I'm 5"6' and weight 205 lbs and have been close to that level for a number of years. I had it down to 185 during the flood and the cleanup efforts yet most it came back. My focus has been working towards being healthy and feeling good about myself. My blood pressure and cholesteral is normal and I exercise 5-6 days a week. Overall I feel pretty good right now.

And those who would fat shame me can stick thier messages up their cardboard ass. Screw off if you have nothing positive to add

[Thor]

Originally Posted by jammies

I'm not interested in shaming fat people, but I'm not interested in enabling their obesity either. Nobody (well - maybe SebC) is proclaiming open season for mockery, but feeling aggrieved because "nobody understands how hard it is" is quite simply wrong: some of us do understand, and what we understand is that your desire to be a healthy weight is less than your desire for food and disinclination to exercise.

I personally have chronic pain issues when I work out, and a long history of really crappy eating habits which had me around 245 lbs (I am 6'3"), yet somehow I've manage to stay in the 185-195 lb range for years. I know it's hard, but if you think you're a special case who just has it so much harder than anyone else, then you're very likely wrong. It's very rarely a case of people being incapable of doing it - like never being able to do calculus because you're just not mathematically inclined - but more that people don't see the pay-off as being worth the extraordinary effort.

The problem is the tools and ways people go about losing and keeping that weight off.

People keep glossing over the mental side of this which is the BIGGEST problem for obese people. There is often a lot behind such massive weight issues and usually in my experience people have had issues with childhood issues, emotional eating, food triggers/addictions, and a host of other things.

We don't mock depressed people, well most don't anymore, we treat it as a serious issue that needs help. What people fail to acknowledge is that the solution starts with dealing with the underlying problems behind the weight, and I'm speaking again only to serious weight issues, there is a lot of difference between someone 10 pounds overweight and those with 100+. Of course how long you've been this way also has a massive effect on how hard it will be to lose and keep it off.

This society is far from enabling obese, its the opposite, it shames and ridicules them from a young age and often the response to this shame and embarrassment is emotional eating and bad relationships with food (think brain pattern/behaviors) which are no easy thing to change, especially when the overwhelming majority of people trying to lose weight are focused solely on diets (usually bad ones, fads, etc) and exercise which are important but only WITH dealing on the emotional side will you get any lasting success.

Sometimes tough love is needed, but ultimately each person has their own unique problems. I have been working on a program for the obese together with a health hotel and another contestant on the show which will focus on group therapy, the psychological side, and of course also give people help with diet and exercise.

But we cannot deny the MASSIVE failure of what we have been doing, the research keeps coming back with depressing statistics on long term weight loss and if you are one of the lucky ones to keep it off, great, but don't forget that while some of you understand the difficulty, most of those so vocal and often nasty towards the obese are people who have not walked a mile in their shoes.

I'm just stunned at these discussions at how quickly people are to be mean, cruel and say disgusting things at which is at its core a deeply emotional, psychological issue.

What really grinds my gears is how people forget that this stuff is read by children, they have enough bullying and shaming in their lives and its heartbreaking to talk to them. I have been approached on FB quite a bit since the show was aired and many of them are kids who have deal with so much bullying and they are so broken down daily that its drives me mad when I see people say such hurtful things about overweight people.

We need to work on solutions, not be so dismissive, mean and act like decent human beings to each other, especially because this problem is so pervasive and getting worse.

There is a lot of blame to go around, our food supply, food engineering, marketing to kids, TONS of bad information about diet and exercise, and a lack of any real successful science that can help us.

Thankfully the last 5 years has seen a ton of great studies and promise for ways to combat this epidemic and finally people realizing that no fat low fat, no carb, juicing, etc.. All these fads are not working, they shouldn't and people are hopefully starting to become more skeptical of the diet industry which has failed us massively so far.

[irrevocable]

Gained 30 lbs in just under a year, working a new job, new lifestyle.. bleh. I've bounced around from 170 to 220 for the last few years, hoping that by cutting my caloric intake and getting more exercise I'll be able to drop the 30 lbs by September.

Honestly, loving yourself is a huge thing. When you're comfortable in your own skin it sure makes it easier to stay away from the compulsive eating habits.

Wish everyone well if they're struggling.

[undercoverbrother]

http://www.montrealgazette.com/healt...876/story.html

Statistic Canada says new data from its 2013 Canadian Community Health Survey show that one in five youths aged 12 to 17 reported height and weight that classified them as overweight or obese.
It says 20.7 per cent of youths could be classified as overweight or obese, a rate that has remained relatively stable since 2008, but is still higher than the 18.7 per cent reported for this group in 2007.
Among adults, 41.9 per cent of men and 27.7 per cent of women reported heights and weights that classified them as overweight in 2013.
The percentage of overweight men was about the same as in 2012, while the rate among women has been stable since 2003.
The survey results also show that more people are at least moderately active during their leisure time, a level equivalent to a 30-minute daily walk or an hour-long exercise class at least three times a week.
It says 55.2 per cent of people over age 12 reported such moderate exercise in 2013, up from 53.9 per cent in 2012.

[habernac]

are they using the BMI? That's such a bull#### scale. Even when I'm in shape, it says I'm overweight.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by habernac

are they using the BMI? That's such a bull#### scale. Even when I'm in shape, it says I'm overweight.

hehehe fatty

Spoiler!

I actually agree with you. I remember being tested in my 20's with some buddies, we were all rugby players. My one friend was "mordidly obese".

In short BMI is no good.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

hehehe fatty

Spoiler!

I actually agree with you. I remember being tested in my 20's with some buddies, we were all rugby players. My one friend was "mordidly obese".

In short BMI is no good.

it really sucks. I know I'm not in the greatest shape right now, but the scale says I'm obese. I did a 7 day mountain bike race in 2008, I was in good shape for that and even then it says I'm overweight. If you have any kind of muscle tone that scale is useless.

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Originally Posted by Dion

My pituitary glad secretes very low levels of growth hormone (HGH) due to a tumour which has lead to lower energy levels and marketly decreased metabolism.

I'm hypothryroid, which actually surprised me and my GP. I also have another condition which puts a ceiling on my physical limits. My feeling is that I'm going to reach my goals doing what I need to do. It doesn't matter that other people would have an easier time of it because their situation is not my situation.

[Displaced Flames fan]

I'm probably in the best place mentally I've been in my entire life. I like who I am. Sadly, that hasn't always been the case. I think it is no coincidence that I've been able to shed 44# in the last 5 1/2 months rather easily.

Funny thing is that when I look at myself in the mirror I don't think I look any differently than I did at 338#. I know I've lost, my clothes don't fit....or do fit depending on when I bought them.

I've got a long way to go. Shame me all you want. I don't care. It says more about you than it does about me. I know someday soon I'll be back to a healthy weight. I'm just happy that I don't appear to have done any permanent damage to my body. Cholesterol and blood pressure are great.