A Song of Ice and Fire **Spoilers** Now more TV talk!

[Bigtime]

You be tugging on your braid reading that stuff...

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by photon

Still better than trying to read Robert Jordan's prose about how women think and act.

EDIT: Nynaeve sniffed.

At least Robert Jordan has a strong thread of a central plot running through his bloated epic.

Martin's love of yanking the carpet out had led to his plot becoming a muddled mess of blind alleys and neglected promises.

The series started about a battle to settle the Seven Kingdoms in time to fend off the White Walkers from the north and the Dragon Queen from the east. 5 massive tomes later, the war for the Seven Kingdoms in barely simmering, with Stannis, the only remaining original contender, no threat to anyone, the White Walkers are still bogey men, and Dany shows no signs of stirring to head overseas. The only real threat to progress the central plot is a character Martin essentially pulled out of nowhere, and which I'm betting is nothing more than another false start.

And nothing has replaced the original central thread beyond a whole bunch of individual set pieces that emerge, live for a bit, then vanish, often with another carpet yank, with little tying them together.

I have little faith in Martin pulling this together in two (or even three) more books in any satisfactory way.

Edit: I should add, this wasn't a rant at you, per se. Your post just triggered something that's been bugging me since I finished book 5.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Mike F

At least Robert Jordan has a strong thread of a central plot running through his bloated epic.

Martin's love of yanking the carpet out had led to his plot becoming a muddled mess of blind alleys and neglected promises.

The series started about a battle to settle the Seven Kingdoms in time to fend off the White Walkers from the north and the Dragon Queen from the east. 5 massive tomes later, the war for the Seven Kingdoms in barely simmering, with Stannis, the only remaining original contender, no threat to anyone, the White Walkers are still bogey men, and Dany shows no signs of stirring to head overseas. The only real threat to progress the central plot is a character Martin essentially pulled out of nowhere, and which I'm betting is nothing more than another false start.

And nothing has replaced the original central thread beyond a whole bunch of individual set pieces that emerge, live for a bit, then vanish, often with another carpet yank, with little tying them together.

I have little faith in Martin pulling this together in two (or even three) more books in any satisfactory way.

Edit: I should add, this wasn't a rant at you, per se. Your post just triggered something that's been bugging me since I finished book 5.

I feel largely the same way about the books now. I almost just want to re-read books 1-3 and pretend that Dany isn't still mucking about somewhere in the east and events elsewhere haven't dried up.

I don't think it's gotten nearly as bad as The Wheel of Time, but if The Winds of Winter is another bloated, overly long book with little actual progression (and years late!) -- well I don't think it will matter because I have little faith that Martin will properly finish before he dies and the TV show will almost certainly be over before he gets there. He's going to lose all of his thunder that way, but at least the writers of the TV series have to actually get somewhere and have limited budget. They should be able to focus on concluding the main points of the story, and with Martin's oversight I hope it's turns out well.

After this season is concluded there's little from books 4-5 that I particularly want to see brought to life, so I can't even say I'll follow the show that diligently any more. This is actually one area where I hope the writers diverge from the source material and speed things up.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Mike F

At least Robert Jordan has a strong thread of a central plot running through his bloated epic.

Martin's love of yanking the carpet out had led to his plot becoming a muddled mess of blind alleys and neglected promises.

The series started about a battle to settle the Seven Kingdoms in time to fend off the White Walkers from the north and the Dragon Queen from the east. 5 massive tomes later, the war for the Seven Kingdoms in barely simmering, with Stannis, the only remaining original contender, no threat to anyone, the White Walkers are still bogey men, and Dany shows no signs of stirring to head overseas. The only real threat to progress the central plot is a character Martin essentially pulled out of nowhere, and which I'm betting is nothing more than another false start.

And nothing has replaced the original central thread beyond a whole bunch of individual set pieces that emerge, live for a bit, then vanish, often with another carpet yank, with little tying them together.

I have little faith in Martin pulling this together in two (or even three) more books in any satisfactory way.

Edit: I should add, this wasn't a rant at you, per se. Your post just triggered something that's been bugging me since I finished book 5.

Lol I have posts in this same thread from 2012 that say this exact thing. The field is littered with aborted plots, discarded foreshadowing, dead characters, and the overarching plot, the thing that's supposed to differentiate a book or books from a Sinfeld novel, has hardly moved at all, IF at all.

Yeah don't get me started. I swore off it after book 5, it's been long enough I'm sure I'll read book 6 and the rest, but he's got a lot to do to move from my rating of "The most gripping and engaging terrible books you will ever read."

[GreenLantern]

We see this all the time, people fall in love with something they create and refuse to let it go. Hollywood sequels are the best example of this. Martin doesn't fall in love with characters, he falls in love with 'carpet pulling'. As a result his series has gone stale for most readers. The only interesting plot left was Jon.. Now I am sure Jon isn't dead, or at least not written off from the story, but all I could envision while reading about him being repeatedly stabbed to end the fifth book was Martin with this crazy look in his eyes and a maniacal laugh as he stabbed doodles of penises on scrap paper with his pen over.. and over again..

Martin's constant need to kill off major characters is similar to Jordan's constant need to make women look like huge bitches. Seriously, was there one nice woman in the entire WoT series? They were all just so angry.

The saving grace as others have said is the fact that GoT is a TV series and at some point it has to end. They can't wait 20 years to finish the series, they might be able to drag out a few seasons now that they have a solid viewer base... but it will end. So one way or another we will get some closure, and I am perfectly fine with seeing it on my TV vs. reading it in a book if it means I just get an ending.

[Zevo]

[Tinordi]

The most depressing thing is that the TV series is basically running ashore now. All the major plot points will be covered by the end of this season and then we get into the real slog of the story.

Is there really anything notable or interesting that happens in the next two books?

[Zevo]

Arya becoming a badass assassin. Could be good if done correctly. I enjoyed those chapters in the books and she is one of my favorite characters on the show.

[Tinordi]

Was that really that interesting? Arya walking around in the dark. Arya refusing to let go of her stuff. Arya cooking and cleaning wtihout talking to anyone. That went on for two books until she finally kills some dude.

[Bigtime]

I'm sure they can find ways to "spice up" Arya's storyline, as for other events we'll get a pretty entertaining "fall of Cersei" plot, and surely they can find a way to make Tyrion's travels to the east a little more exciting.

But yeah, compared to previous seasons it could be a little more difficult to have those jaw dropping moments TV viewers are used to now.

[Tinordi]

Game of Thrones Seasons 5 and 6: major characters walking and sitting around

[GreenLantern]

It will be entertaining for us at least... everyone speculating on which major character dies next.. then nothing happens. And then just when they are comfortable, BAM! Knives in Johns back.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Was that really that interesting? Arya walking around in the dark. Arya refusing to let go of her stuff. Arya cooking and cleaning wtihout talking to anyone. That went on for two books until she finally kills some dude.

It was to me. I was worried he was going to kill her off too, or leave her blind, but he didn't. It kept me quite interested. Also like Bigtime mentioned, Cereis' fall from grace could make for good tv. Like I say, if done correctly, it could still be good.

I found book 4 hard to get through but book 5 got my interest again. I would imagine he will combine the 2 for the show.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Zevo

It was to me. I was worried he was going to kill her off too, or leave her blind, but he didn't. It kept me quite interested. Also like Bigtime mentioned, Cereis' fall from grace could make for good tv. Like I say, if done correctly, it could still be good.

I found book 4 hard to get through but book 5 got my interest again. I would imagine he will combine the 2 for the show.

They kind of have to, as the books overlap so greatly

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The most depressing thing is that the TV series is basically running ashore now. All the major plot points will be covered by the end of this season and then we get into the real slog of the story.

Is there really anything notable or interesting that happens in the next two books?

GRRM might have to let the show put the Battle of Winterfell and/or the Battle of Mereen into the next season.

[Hemi-Cuda]

I could see them pulling a Breaking Bad and splitting the seasons in 2 with lengthy breaks in between to allow Martin more time to finish (ya right...)

[Looch City]

What are the chances that Winds of Winter will be out before Season 5?

0%?

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

What are the chances that Winds of Winter will be out before Season 5?

0%?

S5 will be April 2015. I'd say...15%?

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

What are the chances that Winds of Winter will be out before Season 5?

0%?

Originally Posted by Freeway

S5 will be April 2015. I'd say...15%?

7.5%

[FlameOn]

Great episode! Though so many of the watch are dead there aren't too many familiar faces left.

So... Stannis won't show up the wall will be cliffhangered until next season? Next episode is going to be back at Kings Landing with Tyrion for sure.