Obesity research confirms long-term weight loss almost impossible

[photon]

Originally Posted by Peanut

I think this is a huge thing. People need to move back towards foods that aren't manufactured and manipulated by a company.

Or (EDIT: or probably "and") as DA says do something that limits what the companies can do. I can't remember if it was in this book or elsewhere but it was talking about one exec of a food company basically getting all the other companys' execs together and saying "either we straighten out our act or they are coming for us, just like they went after tobacco".

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Daradon

You can't be serious?! This has got to be a troll job. God forbid a store have a product line or specialty.

Fine, but then don't complain when someone else's product line (or marketing - this is a big one) excludes you.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Keep in mind, this isn't the worst drivel he's spewing in this thread. His bigger nonsensical argument is that "fat" people need to be shamed and not accepted into our society so that they will be motivated to lose weight.

Just a totally short-sighted, unempathetic, cruel line of thinking on his part.

SebC has consistently had a warped view on obese people. Whenever the topic comes up slightly he gravitates towards it. If someone ever even thinks about complimenting the actress Christina Hendricks (Mad Men) he will constantly hard on how big she is, unattractive etc.

It's pretty bizarre, it's an obsession. Totally fits with his almost robotic views on topics though, sees it one way and can't be moved.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by SebC

Fine, but then don't complain when someone else's product line (or marketing - this is a big one) excludes you.

When 98% of the other stores do cater to my needs, I certainly won't complain. And I will never, ever, ever complain about somebody's marketing excluding me....

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by photon

Or (EDIT: or probably "and") as DA says do something that limits what the companies can do. I can't remember if it was in this book or elsewhere but it was talking about one exec of a food company basically getting all the other companys' execs together and saying "either we straighten out our act or they are coming for us, just like they went after tobacco".

That is indeed the right book. Interesting that it was Kraft that organized the meeting among the food giants. I say interesting because at the time they were still part of Phillip Morris, the tobacco company. They had seen one of their products killing people; they didn't want two. And apparently the guy at Kraft put together a very, very strong, convincing case to this panel of executives. However, the owner of General Mills stood up and said "If the consumers want healthy food, then they will buy healthy food. We are providing what the consumers want." And the panel went downhill from there and nothing came out of it. Unchecked capitalism is not in our best interest health wise as General Mills is about making as much profit as possible, not providing the best nutrition. And Kraft can't go it alone in providing low sugar, low salt products because then everyone will switch to buying General Mills alternative. As I suggested earlier I think a good step would be to do with sugar what we did with tobacco.. tax it to death. Get the high fructose corn syrup out of our diets. If industry can't be trusted to police themselves, government has to step in.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by SebC

Fine, but then don't complain when someone else's product line (or marketing - this is a big one) excludes you.

Are you doing drugs? So I guess the answer is that all stores just sell everything?

What exactly are you feeling you are having trouble finding to waste your money on?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by SebC

Fine, but then don't complain when someone else's product line (or marketing - this is a big one) excludes you.

Walmart for everyone! No more EB Games to discriminate against those who don't buy games!

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Daradon

What exactly are you feeling you are having trouble finding to waste your money on?

Logically consistent fat advocacy.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Walmart for everyone! No more EB Games to discriminate against those who don't buy games!

Except fat people, all the doors to Walmart and EB Games should be really really narrow. Winning at a video game might increase their self esteem and promotes a sedentary lifestyle and makes them less likely to lose weight.

OMG furniture stores too!!1! Much harder to be sedentary if one had to sit on cinder blocks.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by photon

Except fat people, all the doors to Walmart and EB Games should be really really narrow. Winning at a video game might increase their self esteem and promotes a sedentary lifestyle and makes them less likely to lose weight.

OMG furniture stores too!!1! Much harder to be sedentary if one had to sit on cinder blocks.

No, no, no, I think it'd be more effective to leave the doors the same size, but make the furniture very narrow and small, that way fat people can get exercise from wandering around the store, but wouldn't be able to buy anything to be sedentary on.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by SebC

Logically consistent fat advocacy.

I don't even know what that means, but I'll take a stab.

First though, I'm just picking apart your arguments as now it's fairly obvious your just arguing for the sake of arguing. You're too 'proud' to go back and say, 'ok, that last comment made no sense' so your lashing out. Your comment about stores makes no logical or practical sense. And I have a hard time thinking that you actually feel excluded in your shopping options. Do you really want a thin men's department at AdditionElle? And even if that's a 'example', what's it an example of? What are you really having trouble finding? How do you feel excluded as a consumer? And how is that any more excluded than the real problems some other groups have?

But yes, in reading this thread, I do find your views on overweight, fat, or obese people rather cruel. Thankfully your becoming a caricature type villain so I don't know what people like Devil's Advocate would even feel bad. There's no reason to take you seriously.

Though I haven't really made any feeling known yet, and my comments haven't suggested anything you have tried to pin me on, I'd advocate healthy people and healthy living. Which means people who are overweight are given tools they need that can help them take control of their weight and life. It means people who are not healthy, are given a chance to get healthy.

Shaming people for any problem never works, weight or otherwise. Especially when you start talking about problems where issues like addiction, mental health, and personal change have roles in the equation.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Shaming people for any problem never works, weight or otherwise. Especially when you start talking about problems where issues like addiction, mental health, and personal change have roles in the equation.

I intend to provide a more comprehensive reply later, but for now, here's a thought:

Wasn't a huge part of smoking's rise the normalisation and glamourisation of it? And isn't the stigmatisation of smoking now a huge part of its decline? Why shouldn't I extrapolate that obesity would follow the same patterns?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by SebC

I intend to provide a more comprehensive reply later, but for now, here's a thought:

Wasn't a huge part of smoking's rise the normalisation and glamourisation of it? And isn't the stigmatisation of smoking now a huge part of its decline? Why shouldn't I extrapolate that obesity would follow the same patterns?

Nobody knows you're a smoker until you pull out a cigarette, and to make the shame go away you simply put it back in your pocket. Fat people get no such luxury

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Nobody knows you're a smoker until you pull out a cigarette, and to make the shame go away you simply put it back in your pocket. Fat people get no such luxury

For a stranger sure, but for friends, family and co-workers (the people whose opinions would presumably carry more weight) you don't go from smoker to non-smoker any time you're not smoking.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by SebC

I intend to provide a more comprehensive reply later, but for now, here's a thought:

Wasn't a huge part of smoking's rise the normalisation and glamourisation of it?

Who the hell is glamourizing obesity????

And isn't the stigmatisation of smoking now a huge part of its decline?

No. Education of its health impacts, and specifically legislation are the cause of the decline (lack of advertising). Shame likely has very little to do with it.

Why shouldn't I extrapolate that obesity would follow the same patterns?

You can't stop eating but you can stop smoking. You can't draw a good parallel here.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by SebC

For a stranger sure, but for friends, family and co-workers (the people whose opinions would presumably carry more weight) you don't go from smoker to non-smoker any time you're not smoking.

Red Herring. People don't quit because of shame. They quit because they know it's unhealthy and they worry about how that affects their loved ones. For smoking, only smoking a little bit doesn't work. Again, you can't do the same abstinence strategy

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by SebC

I intend to provide a more comprehensive reply later, but for now, here's a thought:

Wasn't a huge part of smoking's rise the normalisation and glamourisation of it? And isn't the stigmatisation of smoking now a huge part of its decline? Why shouldn't I extrapolate that obesity would follow the same patterns?

I can't think of glamourization of people who are overweight. Is this like your store example?

Holy smokes I just got it! You are against the new AdditionElle commercial where the plus sized woman is in lingerie on a catwalk!

I'm dead serious, I just connected the dots guys!

Is your argument that images like that tell overweight people it's ok to be overweight and that's a bad thing cause it encourages them to be unhealthy? I'm not going to write a novel here, others have said it better anyway, but I don't think that's the message there.

Or is it just 'Gaaaa! Get that off my tv!'?

[rotten42]

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by SebC

You're right, there aren't any fat people in the world. It's an inappropriate label that applies to absolutely nobody.

Actually, I think it's ridiculous that you think I should get an infraction for using the word fat to describe people who are fat. Or should we just ride the euphemism treadmill forever?

I use the word fat because not overweight people are fat, and not all fat people are obese. But all fat people are fat! I meant exactly what I said. Had I chose a different word, it would not have conveyed the right meaning.

I think it is ridiculous that you can call people fat when for many it is not a choice, but I can't call you an ####### when it is 100% your choice to be one

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by rotten42

Discipline vs Regret images

Can you make those any bigger? Kinda hard to read them.

As for "discipline".... I'm not sure that is the right word to use. Would you say an alcoholic lacks discipline? If there is a overwhelming biological drive to do a certain behaviour, is it correctly to label it "undisciplined"?