Normandy D-Day landing sites: Then & Now

[habernac]

the kindest man I've ever known

[FlamesAddiction]

The thing that gets me is that everyone in that first wave of the invasion knew that there was a reasonably good chance that they were martyring themselves for the greater good. Not just accepting the typical dangers of entering a battle, but actually entering something that was almost like shooting fish in a barrel for the first ones involved. Does anyone know the survival and casualty rate of the first wave?

I just can't imagine my generation, or anyone younger, being that selfless (at least not in the West, and not in such great numbers - obviously some people still volunteer for these things).

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The thing that gets me is that everyone in that first wave of the invasion knew that there was a reasonably good chance that they were martyring themselves for the greater good. Does anyone know the survival and casualty rate of the first wave?

I just can't imagine my generation, or anyone younger, being that selfless (at least not in the West).

As tough as it is to try to put ourselves in those shoes, it's just as tough to try to rationalise the kind of world that existed at the time.

It is difficult to imagine every major power on the planet going to war against each other at the same time. I can't say how I'd react in that kind of world.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It is difficult to imagine every major power on the planet going to war against each other at the same time. I can't say how I'd react in that kind of world.

This. The world was sooo much different back then. The overall mood of the world was one of great fear of the Axis acheiving global domination as they seemed unstoppable. It was a real and genuine threat. It had to be done or the world could have been enslaved. Recent generations have never had to experience that kind of threat.

I think when you are staring down a situation like that, you wold be impressed with what people will do.

I truly hope we never have to face something like that again. I'm acutally a little bit surprised we haven't yet.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

This. The world was sooo much different back then. The overall mood of the world was one of great fear of the Axis acheiving global domination as they seemed unstoppable. It was a real and genuine threat. It had to be done or the world could have been enslaved. Recent generations have never had to experience that kind of threat.

I think when you are staring down a situation like that, you wold be impressed with what people will do.

I truly hope we never have to face something like that again. I'm acutally a little bit surprised we haven't yet.

True enough.

And not to take away from the men and women who volunteer for military service and accept the dangers that go along with it. They obviously put themselves in situations that are mortally dangerous. The volume of people volunteering in the 1940s was just so huge and risks seemed more unmeasured than most conflicts we have seen since. Hard to fathom the kind of resolve they must have had.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

True enough.

And not to take away from the men and women who volunteer for military service and accept the dangers that go along with it. They obviously put themselves in situations that are mortally dangerous. The volume of people volunteering in the 1940s was just so huge and risks seemed more unmeasured than most conflicts we have seen since. Hard to fathom the kind of resolve they must have had.

Oh absolutley, I simply can't imagine what must have been goin through the heads of the troops as they were approaching the landing sites. Staring down almost certain death, yet having the courage to set foot on the beach. It's truling inspiring.

When you think about it that way, how can we possibly ever be grateful enough? They truly did save the world. It's amazing stuff.

[jofillips]

Those 15and16 inch naval guns had a huge range and would of been a very real threat to any armour getting near the beaches, i'm pretty sure they were banging away for weeks at the Caen front (full of Panzers in the battle for normandy).

The one place i'd love to visit is a monastery occupied by the SS that overlooked all the Canadian landing spots - very bitter fighting in the first few chaotic days
there.

Oh and with midway wasnt the 'magic' intelligence online by then?
As in they knew what the japs were doing before they did!

[FurnaceFace]

I'm in Paris right now and things seem to be gearing up. French and British flags line the Champs Élysées (yes there were other countries, but ignore that), and we saw a Canadian University group at the Arch de Triumph yesterday decked out 70th anniversary jackets. I'm sad our flight leaves on Friday and I can't experience some of it.

The beaches are crazy to visit and incredibly sobering. Omaha especially due to the depth of the beach. Standing at the water edge and looking back onto the hill it's a wonder anyone was successful getting off that beach and then having to crawl up that hill too. I can't imagine doing it now without all the barbed wire, iron crosses, and other stuff the beach would have been littered with at the time. Only other place that I shake my head more at is Dieppe. There is no sand, it's all shale and almost impossible to walk along, you just sink into it.

Everyone talks about fight or flight as the basic instincts. I think the soldiers would have gone into another level flight or freeze. I can only imagine the brain saying "I need to get off the beach to that berm." or the brain completely freezing up. The platoon and squad commanders who got their troops off that beach are the guys who won that battle by keeping their heads about them.

[jofillips]

this should be on-topic, does anyone here know lots about the calgary/albertan war effort?
Ive read plenty about the Commonwealth air training program where fliers from around the world trained here in their tens of thousands. A night out in Calgary would probably have been quite fun back then!!

Another thing i read once but would love to learn more about is Calgarys industrial contribution - i think it was Valentine tanks that were made in the CPR yards. Any chance these yards still exist??

[Otto-matic]

My grandfather was part of the 1st Cdn Parachute Batt - Wish I had the chance still to ask him about the war and his stories,

[burn_baby_burn]

Just seems like yesterday that my Grandparents went to Normandy for the 50th anniversary. My Grandpa joined underage because "school was boring and I thought fighting the Germans would be a lot more fun. Stupidest decision I ever made.". He wouldn't talk about his experiences much. The only thing I remember was "when we got to the beach and the Germans were shooting at us, I told my commanding officer "ok, I've had enough I want to go home now". He told me to shut up and get my ass in the water". I wasn't very old when he told me this, so I'm sure it was his way of deflecting away some questions I had and adding a little humor for his grandson.

[nixon45]

I have seen Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan, The Pacific etc etc numerous times.

Every time I watch them I get immense anxiety when it comes time for those ramps to go down on the landing craft, or when one of those men step out of the airplanes with anti-aircraft flak littering the sky, etc.

I can't even fathom how I would react if placed in the same situation.

Courage doesn't even begin to describe...

[icarus]

Earlier this year I got my grandfather's (Edward Palmer) logs from his flights piloting Halifaxes and other planes in the 138 Special Ops squadron at RAF Tempsford. On D-Day he flew a diversion mission dropping dummies east of Juno and Sword beaches.

I've put his photo and scans of his actual log entries here for everyone to check out.

Here is a summary of Operation Titanic from the D-Day Revisited website:

Meanwhile, another diversion tactic was taking place further west along the coast of France, closer to the Normandy beaches. Operation Titanic was designed to to persuade the Germans that the invasion was spread over a vast area and thus entice troops away from the actual invasion zone. In the early hours of the 6th of June, a force of 40 Hudsons, Halifaxes and Stirlings from the Royal Air Force dropped a total of 500 dummies in four separate locations. These dummies, known affectionately as "Ruperts", were dropped as far apart as Yerville in the Seine-Maritime region and Marigny in the Manche. The dummies were by no means sophisticated and were mostly fabricated by stuffing straw and sand into sack cloth which had been stitched together in a cross shape to represent a human figure. They were equipped with an explosive charge that burned away the cloth after landing to prevent the enemy discovering their true
nature too quickly.

Twelve men from the Special Air Service were tasked to accompany the dummies and engage the Germans on landing, but to ensure some of them escaped to spread the word that hundreds of parachutists were landing in the area. They also carried recordings and amplifiers and played sound of rifle and mortar fire together with shouted commands, which they played for thirty minutes before withdrawing from the fake landing zone.

Sadly two Stirling aircraft and their crews were lost during the operation in the Calvados region and eight of the twelve SAS were killed in action or taken prisoner. However, by 02:00 on 6th June the Germans had reported parachute landings east of Caen and as far west as Saint-Lô. The 7th Army was placed on full invasion alert. Generalfeldmarshall von Rundstedt ordered over half of the 12th SS Panzer Division to deal with an an enemy parachute landing near Lisieux, but it wasn't armed invaders they discovered, just piles of sand, straw and cloth. The level of alert was decreased.

The SAS who landed around Marigny and Saint-Lô managed to divert the only reserve element of the german 352nd Infantry Divison away from Omaha beach, Gold beach and the 101st airborne drop zones. This distracted regiment spent the morning of 6th June scouring the woods for parachutists, instead of offering much needed support to their comrades at the coast. Overall Operation Titanic achieved its objective, confusing and distracting the german defence forces on the morning of the allied invasion.

[nixon45]

Originally Posted by jofillips

Ive read plenty about the Commonwealth air training program where fliers from around the world trained here in their tens of thousands.

My grandpa once told me a story of when he was a young boy in Calgary back when they were training the fighter pilots in and around the area. One day he and his brother were out playing as kids do, when they heard one of the aircraft sputtering and saw it falling out of the sky, eventually crashing not too far from where they were. Being kids they ran over to the area and they witnessed another boy who had been on the ground and severely burned by the crash/fireball. My grandpa didn't say much about it, but what he did say is that the sight of the kids metal buckles on his overalls melted into his skin, was something he would never forget.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

My grandfather was part of the 1st Cdn Parachute Batt - Wish I had the chance still to ask him about the war and his stories,

That's awesome. My husband's grandfather was also part of this Batt - he doesn't like to talk much about it though. A lot of bad memories, I think.

[Redliner]

Originally Posted by jofillips

Another thing i read once but would love to learn more about is Calgarys industrial contribution - i think it was Valentine tanks that were made in the CPR yards. Any chance these yards still exist??

The Valentine tanks - 300 of them - were actually constructed at CPR's Angus Shops in Montreal. Here in Calgary, CP's Ogden Shops were reconfigured to manufacture naval guns and gun placements. The shops still exist, even though they are no longer active. Many of the buildings have been renovated and converted to office space, as CP moved it's corporate head office to Ogden last year.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Not sure if anyone is following this, but on twitter @CBCDDayLive is tweeting events as they would have happened on D-Day. It's pretty interesting.

[jofillips]

suprisingly the history channel has canadian documentaries allday on normandy.

Thru it i learned of the abbaye d'ardennes (SS HQ viewing the canadian advance), wished i knew of that when i visited that area.

[Riles]

Originally Posted by FFR

That's awesome. My husband's grandfather was also part of this Batt - he doesn't like to talk much about it though. A lot of bad memories, I think.

My wife's great-uncle was, too. He parachuted in before the invasion and spent more than two months behind enemy lines fighting with the French Resistance before he was able to re-join the Allies. He finally wrote about it before he died and it was inspiring and humbling to read.

[MoneyGuy]

We had the most amazing experience today. We're in Boston and went to see the USS Constitution, Old Ironsides.

Also there is the USS Cassin Young, a WWII destroyer. It was named for a Pearl Harbor hero. There was a great DD ceremony on board and we got front-row seats. Speakers were two American soldiers and a Frenchman who lived there.

I met and had my photo taken with a 99-year-old American soldier who was part of the invasion force, Bill Needham.

I'm a huge WWII buff and this was very moving. I got to thank some heros.

We also got to see Old Ironsides. Great day.