06-01-2014, 01:45 PM
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#21
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman
44 points actually, in 66 games-as a 19 year old. True, he is "just fine" offensively, but those aren't exactly superstar-type numbers. My point is that his play in his own end doesn't look better given those numbers. Odd that he would be rewarded with a contract so early.
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I don't think anyone else is expecting a fifth round pick to have "superstar-type numbers". As you say he is obviously capable offensively which is what got him drafted in the first place and his defensive short-comings were the reason he fell to the fifth round. If he's being signed to an ELC I'd imagine Flames brass have seen enough improvement or potential in his defensive game to merit this move and I'm confident they've spent a lot more time than you or I watching him.
__________________
"If the oceans was whiskey and I was a duck, I'd swim to the bottom and never come up, but the oceans ain't whiskey, and I ain't no duck, so I'll play the Jack of Diamonds and toast to my luck..."
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06-01-2014, 01:47 PM
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#22
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Scoring Winger
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I'm upset they signed Roy, he has all kinds of problems in his own end and should've waited a year to see weather we wan to waste a contract on him for 3 years. He could turn out to be something really special. But I doubt it.
I hope Gordon gets a shot somewhere else
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06-01-2014, 01:48 PM
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#23
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Farm Team Player
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sweden
Exp: 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman
44 points actually, in 66 games-as a 19 year old. True, he is "just fine" offensively, but those aren't exactly superstar-type numbers. My point is that his play in his own end doesn't look better given those numbers. Odd that he would be rewarded with a contract so early.
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He's a fifth round pick, no one is expecting him to perform at superstar level in any way a year after the draft
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06-01-2014, 01:48 PM
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#24
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Franchise Player
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So... is he 'Roy' as in Patrick Roy, or 'Roy' as in Derek Roy?
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06-01-2014, 01:50 PM
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#25
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube
So... is he 'Roy' as in Patrick Roy, or 'Roy' as in Derek Roy?
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English Roy. Not Francophone Roy.
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06-01-2014, 01:50 PM
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#26
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube
So... is he 'Roy' as in Patrick Roy, or 'Roy' as in Derek Roy?
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The latter.
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06-01-2014, 01:54 PM
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#27
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Austria, NOT Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahan23
I'm upset they signed Roy
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they didn't sign him, they just offered him a contract (probably league minimum ELC). If they didn't, they would have lost his rights. See getbaks post on the first page.
Darren Haynes @DarrenWHaynes
Same thing happened last year with Coda Gordon, Flames made offer by June 1 to maintain rights. He rejected the offer but never got another.
Darren Haynes @DarrenWHaynes
Last year, Gordon, Culkin and Kulak as 2012 picks all got bonafide offers by June 1. Each rejected it. Only Culkin/Kulak got another offer.
Darren Haynes @DarrenWHaynes
Often players such as Coda Gordon will reject the initial offer for league minimum, hoping a better contract will come. This time it didn't.
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06-01-2014, 01:56 PM
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#28
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo22
they didn't sign him, they just offered him a contract (probably league minimum ELC). If they didn't, they would have lost his rights. See getbaks post on the first page.
Darren Haynes @DarrenWHaynes
Same thing happened last year with Coda Gordon, Flames made offer by June 1 to maintain rights. He rejected the offer but never got another.
Darren Haynes @DarrenWHaynes
Last year, Gordon, Culkin and Kulak as 2012 picks all got bonafide offers by June 1. Each rejected it. Only Culkin/Kulak got another offer.
Darren Haynes @DarrenWHaynes
Often players such as Coda Gordon will reject the initial offer for league minimum, hoping a better contract will come. This time it didn't. |
Can't imagine what kind of bozo agent would tell a 6th round draft pick to reject ANY contract offer.
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06-01-2014, 02:00 PM
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#29
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeway
Odd that the team's (a) offering him a deal now and (b) announcing it.
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I agree, very odd that they announced it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak
He's not signed yet. This is simply a condition of the CBA to retain draft rights to a player from major junior (it's been in the CBA since at least 2005, but I don't recall teams ever announcing it).
Quote:
8.6 Reserve List-Exclusive Rights.
(a) Commencing with the 2013 Entry Draft, a Player selected by a Club in the Entry Draft shall be registered on the Reserve List of the selecting Club as an "Unsigned Draft Choice."
(i) Subject to the provisions of Sections (b), (c), (d) and (e) below, such registration shall establish for such selecting Club the exclusive right of negotiation for the services of each Player selected and registered as against all other Clubs up to and including June 1 of the next calendar year following the date of his selection.
(ii) Subject to the provisions of subsection (iii) below and Sections (b), (c) and (d) below, if, on or before June 1 of the calendar year next succeeding the Entry Draft, the claiming Club makes a Bona Fide Offer (as defined below) to its claimed Player of an SPC, the Club shall retain the exclusive right of negotiation for the services of such Player up to and including the second June 1 following the date of his selection.
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If they had not made a bona fide offer, he would have been removed from the Flames' reserve list.
Roy was the only player drafted last year who they were required to give a bona fide offer. Monahan, Poirier, Klimchuk, and Kanzig are already signed. Harrison and Gilmour are College students, and Rafikov is a European player so the three of them didn't require a bona fide offer to remain Flames property.
The offer is likely a bare minimum ELC, so he might not want to sign it. If he doesn't sign it, he'll still remain Flames property until June 1, 2015. |
That is a new provision in the CBA, as shown by the line "Commencing with the 2013 Entry Draft".
If the Flames had not made an offer would have he re-entered the draft? Or would have he become a UFA? Because it just states we would have lost exclusive negotiating rights.
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06-01-2014, 02:21 PM
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#30
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef
That is a new provision in the CBA, as shown by the line "Commencing with the 2013 Entry Draft".
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The 2005 CBA said the same thing (it said "2005", but otherwise the wording is exactly the same).
The only change I could see is that European players are now a team's property for 4 years without requiring a bona fide offer after one year.
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Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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06-01-2014, 02:22 PM
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#31
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: St. George's, Grenada
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So just because they offered a contract, he can stay Flames property for another year even if he refuses the offer?
Thanks for the article PMM, I feel a lot better about Roy knowing he's working hard to improve, and the coaches he's working with now are just the ones to do it.
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06-01-2014, 02:29 PM
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#32
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btimbit
So just because they offered a contract, he can stay Flames property for another year even if he refuses the offer?
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Yup. It's just like when teams give a pending RFA the required qualifying offer to maintain his RFA status. Very few players actually accept the QO because it is a bare-minimum offer, and they know they can usually negotiate a better deal with the team.
__________________
Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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06-01-2014, 02:30 PM
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#33
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monahan23
I'm upset they signed Roy, he has all kinds of problems in his own end and should've waited a year to see weather we wan to waste a contract on him for 3 years. He could turn out to be something really special. But I doubt it.
I hope Gordon gets a shot somewhere else
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As I recall TJ Brodie was good offensively in junior but suspect defensively. Look how he turned out after a few years. I think it is easier to teach a defenseman in how to play defensively hockey than teaching them offensively. So I am very confident that if Eric Roy is willing to listen and learn, he'll be an average or more than average two-way defenseman. A few seasons in AHL will prepare him for the NHL.
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06-01-2014, 02:37 PM
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#34
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzSome
As I recall TJ Brodie was good offensively in junior but suspect defensively. Look how he turned out after a few years. I think it is easier to teach a defenseman in how to play defensively hockey than teaching them offensively. So I am very confident that if Eric Roy is willing to listen and learn, he'll be an average or more than average two-way defenseman. A few seasons in AHL will prepare him for the NHL.
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That and our less than stellar defensive prospect pool mandates that we have to work with our picks to see if they can develop into nhl quality.
Still shaking my head why we didn't pick Ebert instead of Gordon. Could shoulda woulda.
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06-01-2014, 02:54 PM
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#35
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube
Can't imagine what kind of bozo agent would tell a 6th round draft pick to reject ANY contract offer.
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That is a head scratcher for me as well.
Only thing would be if the 2 way contract offer was less than what the guy would make in Europe or the ECHL.
__________________
"OOOOOOHHHHHHH those Russians" - Boney M
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06-01-2014, 02:58 PM
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#36
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getbak
The 2005 CBA said the same thing (it said "2005", but otherwise the wording is exactly the same).
The only change I could see is that European players are now a team's property for 4 years without requiring a bona fide offer after one year.
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I guess with the change involving euros in the provision it would technically commence with the 2013 draft.
Also I always thought Bona Fide was 1 word, it seems like I am getting schooled today
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06-01-2014, 03:23 PM
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#37
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fransken
He's a fifth round pick, no one is expecting him to perform at superstar level in any way a year after the draft
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Obviously guys, nobody is expecting a superstar-this is just a sarcastic way of illustrating my thoughts about his numbers being less than stellar for a guy with perceived defensive issues. I shouldn't have to explain that.
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06-01-2014, 03:32 PM
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#38
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Some kinda newsbreaker!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Learning Phaneufs skating style
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer_carlson
That is a head scratcher for me as well.
Only thing would be if the 2 way contract offer was less than what the guy would make in Europe or the ECHL.
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Most likely the offer was $35k/yr (lowest allowed by the CBA) in the AHL and no signing bonus.
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06-01-2014, 04:52 PM
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#39
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First Line Centre
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Glencross
Hudler
Bouma
Gaudreau
Baertschi
Byron
Reinhart
Van Brabant
Ferland
Klimchuk
Agostino
Wolf
Is it worth offering a contract to a player who wouldn't even crack your top 10 or 12 depth chart at his position?
Good luck to him anyway.
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06-01-2014, 05:05 PM
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#40
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: St. George's, Grenada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlameZilla
Glencross
Hudler
Bouma
Gaudreau
Baertschi
Byron
Reinhart
Van Brabant
Ferland
Klimchuk
Agostino
Wolf
Is it worth offering a contract to a player who wouldn't even crack your top 10 or 12 depth chart at his position?
Good luck to him anyway.
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Roy is a d-man
Edit: Oh you were talking about Gordon. Forgot the thread was about both, my bad
Last edited by btimbit; 06-01-2014 at 05:05 PM.
Reason: edit
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