Study says gluten sensitivity is fake

[strombad]

Originally Posted by cupofjoe

Yes, if it was only that easy....

I had done the reduced carbs, eat lean protein and was eating 'healthy' by your standard. Still had energy issues, ibs, etc. It was only when I eliminated gluten/wheat did it help. I love bread, it was not easy to give up, but I am glad that I did.

Well bread is bad for you in almost every way, so that's likely the cause more than the gluten. Do you know what all gluten is in? Because I hesitate to give any credit to anyone who equates giving up gluten to "giving up bread."

It's basically like an alcoholic saying "Yeah I'm not an alcoholic anymore because I stopped drinking vodka."

[cupofjoe]

Seriously dude, do you think that I am that stupid? Where did I say that giving up bread was equal to going gluten-free?

Bread was only one of many things that I don't eat anymore. I have to carefully read labels, all labels to make sure that I not eating gluten.

Gluten is in a lot of things, most licorice has gluten for example. Now had I said that I had loved that gluten-filled licorice would you have come up with the brilliant statement:

"Well Cup, licorice is bad for you in almost every way, so that's likely the cause more than the gluten...."

So, please hang on to your credit, it doesn't look like you have much to spare...

[strombad]

Easy there kiddo, no need to get upset. I was just casually pointing out that your imagined gluten issues are likely just that, imagined.

Eating a mostly grain-free and processed food-free diet is brilliant in absolutely every way for the body. Good for you, you dropped bread and liquorice, and soy sauce, and you stopped eating out, and you stopped drinking and eating anything processed, you stopped buying canned soup and you don't eat fried food, plus, thank goodness, you make all your own salad dressing.

What do all of these foods have in common? That they aren't good for you. If I eat a Big Mac every day and one day decide "you know what, meat makes me feel bad! I'm a vegetarian now!" I'm probably going to feel a lot better, and if I was less than intelligent about my situation, I'd probably say "Not eating meat has been great for me!" while avoiding the very obvious reality at hand.

You loved bread, thus you likely ate a lot of something that's generally terrible for you. Now you eat no bread and you feel better. Good for you, but use your own ability to comprehend logic, avoid fad diet BS that pops up on the Internet for clicks, and realistically think about why you feel better.

If you think you might not be able to handle gluten, do yourself a favour and have a doctor reach up your bum and cut a little piece out of you. That way you can actually know, and not self diagnose like so many people do. The desire for people to blow off feeling bad as caused by something out of their control is strong, I know, but it's ok to just say "Hey, I was eating like crap and hurting my body, my fault, now I'm eating healthier and feeling better."

You don't have to make up a sensitivity or disease just to justify how bad you were feeling.

[cupofjoe]

Easy there kiddo, no need to get upset. I was just casually pointing out that your imagined gluten issues are likely just that, imagined.

Eating a mostly grain-free and processed food-free diet is brilliant in absolutely every way for the body. Good for you, you dropped bread and liquorice, and soy sauce, and you stopped eating out, and you stopped drinking and eating anything processed, you stopped buying canned soup and you don't eat fried food, plus, thank goodness, you make all your own salad dressing.

What do all of these foods have in common? That they aren't good for you. If I eat a Big Mac every day and one day decide "you know what, meat makes me feel bad! I'm a vegetarian now!" I'm probably going to feel a lot better, and if I was less than intelligent about my situation, I'd probably say "Not eating meat has been great for me!" while avoiding the very obvious reality at hand.

You loved bread, thus you likely ate a lot of something that's generally terrible for you. Now you eat no bread and you feel better. Good for you, but use your own ability to comprehend logic, avoid fad diet BS that pops up on the Internet for clicks, and realistically think about why you feel better.

If you think you might not be able to handle gluten, do yourself a favour and have a doctor reach up your bum and cut a little piece out of you. That way you can actually know, and not self diagnose like so many people do. The desire for people to blow off feeling bad as caused by something out of their control is strong, I know, but it's ok to just say "Hey, I was eating like crap and hurting my body, my fault, now I'm eating healthier and feeling better."

You don't have to make up a sensitivity or disease just to justify how bad you were feeling.

Well Kiddo, (note - I will address you in the same condescending way) here are a couple of facts that you might not know:

I have been tested and have a "moderate sensitivity" to wheat. In other words, I am not Celiac but I do react to wheat. I did this test after going gluten-free. Do I truly know whether it is the gluten itself or wheat that gets me - no. The safest bet for me was to continue to keep eating gluten-free. This was a blood test which can vary in its reliability, the biopsy you refer to so elegantly, is aimed at detecting Celiac's disease. It will not necessarily detect gluten allergies or even all Celiac cases for that matter. Unfortunately, there is no holy-grail test for gluten-sensitivity, trust me I wish there was.

One of best tests for gluten allergy is a person's response to a gluten-free diet. In my case, my symptoms went away when I was gluten-free. When I went back eating gluten, (Xmas has too many temptations), the symptoms returned. Went back on gluten-free, symptoms went away. Do you think that I might have concluded that gluten and/or wheat is probably not good for me, or do you I am still imagining things at this point.? Am I being realistic in your eyes? I have been off gluten for about a year and half, twice I have gone back to eating gluten, both times the symptoms returned (Please note both times I went back, I was eating a healthy diet with some gluten). Now, I am committed to keeping gluten-free. Am I happy that I have to do this - NO, but to me it is worth the effort to avoid the unpleasantness.

Do I absolutely know that I am gluten-sensitive? No, but it seems likely

Do I think that everyone will benefit from going gluten-free? - NO

Do I think that if you eat healthy and still experience gluten sensitivity symptoms that a person might consider trying gluten-free? - Yes

If said person tries gluten-free properly (ie cold turkey, no gluten whatsoever) and gets positive results, should they continue gluten-free? - Completely up to them.

Look Strombad, I not trying to pick a fight with you or anyone else for that matter. This is a personal topic to me and I am sensitive about it. It has been a struggle for me to find relief from some pretty irritating symptoms. Now that I have, being denounce as being delusional or that I am making up a disease doesn't sit well with me.

My goal here is not to convince everyone to try gluten-free. Initially I just wanted to give the counterpoint link in my first reply, not to share my story. I didn't want people to completely rule out gluten-free as an option, especially if they are at their wits end. There is no harm in trying gluten-free properly for 30 days, if it helps you then you have decide your next course of action. If it doesn't, go back to eating the way you were.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by strombad

Easy there kiddo, no need to get upset. I was just casually pointing out that your imagined gluten issues are likely just that, imagined.

Eating a mostly grain-free and processed food-free diet is brilliant in absolutely every way for the body. Good for you, you dropped bread and liquorice, and soy sauce, and you stopped eating out, and you stopped drinking and eating anything processed, you stopped buying canned soup and you don't eat fried food, plus, thank goodness, you make all your own salad dressing.

What do all of these foods have in common? That they aren't good for you. If I eat a Big Mac every day and one day decide "you know what, meat makes me feel bad! I'm a vegetarian now!" I'm probably going to feel a lot better, and if I was less than intelligent about my situation, I'd probably say "Not eating meat has been great for me!" while avoiding the very obvious reality at hand.

You loved bread, thus you likely ate a lot of something that's generally terrible for you. Now you eat no bread and you feel better. Good for you, but use your own ability to comprehend logic, avoid fad diet BS that pops up on the Internet for clicks, and realistically think about why you feel better.

If you think you might not be able to handle gluten, do yourself a favour and have a doctor reach up your bum and cut a little piece out of you. That way you can actually know, and not self diagnose like so many people do. The desire for people to blow off feeling bad as caused by something out of their control is strong, I know, but it's ok to just say "Hey, I was eating like crap and hurting my body, my fault, now I'm eating healthier and feeling better."

You don't have to make up a sensitivity or disease just to justify how bad you were feeling.

Too often you come off sounding like a complete jerk in your posts.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by cupofjoe

Well Kiddo, (note - I will address you in the same condescending way) here are a couple of facts that you might not know:

I have been tested and have a "moderate sensitivity" to wheat. In other words, I am not Celiac but I do react to wheat. I did this test after going gluten-free. Do I truly know whether it is the gluten itself or wheat that gets me - no. The safest bet for me was to continue to keep eating gluten-free. This was a blood test which can vary in its reliability, the biopsy you refer to so elegantly, is aimed at detecting Celiac's disease. It will not necessarily detect gluten allergies or even all Celiac cases for that matter. Unfortunately, there is no holy-grail test for gluten-sensitivity, trust me I wish there was.

One of best tests for gluten allergy is a person's response to a gluten-free diet. In my case, my symptoms went away when I was gluten-free. When I went back eating gluten, (Xmas has too many temptations), the symptoms returned. Went back on gluten-free, symptoms went away. Do you think that I might have concluded that gluten and/or wheat is probably not good for me, or do you I am still imagining things at this point.? Am I being realistic in your eyes? I have been off gluten for about a year and half, twice I have gone back to eating gluten, both times the symptoms returned (Please note both times I went back, I was eating a healthy diet with some gluten). Now, I am committed to keeping gluten-free. Am I happy that I have to do this - NO, but to me it is worth the effort to avoid the unpleasantness.

Do I absolutely know that I am gluten-sensitive? No, but it seems likely

Do I think that everyone will benefit from going gluten-free? - NO

Do I think that if you eat healthy and still experience gluten sensitivity symptoms that a person might consider trying gluten-free? - Yes

If said person tries gluten-free properly (ie cold turkey, no gluten whatsoever) and gets positive results, should they continue gluten-free? - Completely up to them.

Look Strombad, I not trying to pick a fight with you or anyone else for that matter. This is a personal topic to me and I am sensitive about it. It has been a struggle for me to find relief from some pretty irritating symptoms. Now that I have, being denounce as being delusional or that I am making up a disease doesn't sit well with me.

My goal here is not to convince everyone to try gluten-free. Initially I just wanted to give the counterpoint link in my first reply, not to share my story. I didn't want people to completely rule out gluten-free as an option, especially if they are at their wits end. There is no harm in trying gluten-free properly for 30 days, if it helps you then you have decide your next course of action. If it doesn't, go back to eating the way you were.

Listen, it's great that you've found something that works for you, but the science just isn't there to back up your claims. The key phrase applicable here is this:

Correlation does not imply causation.

Do you know why there is no holy grail test for gluten sensitivity? There (despite your assertion) are tests that will absolutely diagnose Celiac, Crohn's, Diabetes, etc. So why not "gluten sensitivity"? Because it's not a "real" tangible thing. Are you potentially allergic to wheat? Apparently. Here's a fact you may not know: for any test to be near accurate, you need to be ingesting a full-on gluten enriched diet. Claiming that you were already gluten-free at the time of the test essentially makes it unreliable on every level. If this is of course the blood test used to read "gluten levels" (in layman's terms) and not an allergy test where wheat was tested.

My original statement stands. If you're eating well and avoiding most grains and pretty much all processed food for the better part of a year, and you decide to introduce something new into your diet that you aren't used to eating (like Christmas dinner) what do you THINK is going to happen? That it'll just be magically ok?

I really don't mean to offend you, but the fact of the matter is that gluten sensitivity does not exist. It's a fad. The end. Could you be allergic to wheat? Of course! But what's the point then in posting something that goes against statements about GLUTEN sensitivities when you yourself have never been even remotely diagnosed with anything to do with gluten, and eat gluten free based simply on the advice of fad diet blogs?

People simply aren't gluten sensitive. It's not a thing. Gluten-free diets work because they're healthy (not gluten-substitute diets of course) and of course eating better makes people feel better and going away from that will make them feel worse. If you don't consume dairy for 6 months and then gulp down a glass of milk, you might poop yourself.

Like you, I'm sensitive to the issue because my little brother is celiac, and I've actually witnessed the pain and discomfort it causes, along with the reality that he is more likely to die because of complications related to his disease. It's great eating gluten free if you want to or if it makes you feel better, but as soon as you spread things that encourage fad dieting and diminish actual diagnosable conditions, that's where I take issue. It's just pseudoscience.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by redforever

Too often you come off sounding like a complete jerk in your posts.

You must be new here.
I might just be a complete jerk, but drive by posts identifying something a lot of people already believe doesn't really help anyone, right?

I might be politeness-sensitive.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by strombad

You must be new here.
I might just be a complete jerk, but drive by posts identifying something a lot of people already believe doesn't really help anyone, right?

I might be politeness-sensitive.

Again, you prove my point. You act like a complete jerk.

You imply I am new here without even checking to see when I joined. I joined in 2006. You joined in 2013.

It does not matter if everyone believes the new gluten free fad or not. The other poster merely mentioned that going gluten free improved his health and well being.

He never implied that he is a complete believer in gluten free helping everyone. He merely implied that going gluten free improved his life style.

Is it so impossible for you to leave it at that?

And he never said that correlation implies causation. You are the one who jumped on him and implied that he had.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by redforever

Again, you prove my point. You act like a complete jerk.

You imply I am new here without even checking to see when I joined. I joined in 2006. You joined in 2013.

It does not matter if everyone believes the new gluten free fad or not. The other poster merely mentioned that going gluten free improved his health and well being.

He never implied that he is a complete believer in gluten free helping everyone. He merely implied that going gluten free improved his life style.

Is it so impossible for you to leave it at that?

And he never said that correlation implies causation. You are the one who jumped on him and implied that he had.

Just to add a bit to strombad's point (as I also have experience with a loved one who is Celiac), the issue I think is that, while "going gluten free" improved his lifestyle, that doesn't mean that gluten (or the lack thereof) was the cause of the improvement. The simple switch from gluten and wheat heavy foods with improve your lifestyle because those foods are healthier than the alternative. There are many different factors at play in his diet than just gluten and/or wheat.

And he does claim correlation between the two from his tests for sensitivity. Strombad is correct in that if he was tested AFTER going gluten-free, the test is completely useless. And what does "moderate sensitivity" even mean? If someone tests positive for something like that wouldn't the next step be to test for Celiac, since it's actually a serious thing? Everyone has sensitivity to wheat and gluten. Humans are not necessarily supposed to ingest it. It was only since the agricultural revolution that this stuff was introduced into our diet. If someone completely cuts out carbs and only consumes meat and fruits/veggies, they are likely a very healthy person.

The point is, cutting out bread is going to make you healthier just based on the fact that bread is not good for you, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the gluten. If you feel healthier by making this switch all the power to you and keep it going. It's the seemingly pretending that it has anything to do with an ailment that irks some people when there are actual serious conditions involved with this stuff.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by strombad

I really don't mean to offend you, but the fact of the matter is that gluten sensitivity does not exist. It's a fad. The end. Could you be allergic to wheat? Of course! But what's the point then in posting something that goes against statements about GLUTEN sensitivities when you yourself have never been even remotely diagnosed with anything to do with gluten, and eat gluten free based simply on the advice of fad diet blogs?

People simply aren't gluten sensitive. It's not a thing. Gluten-free diets work because they're healthy (not gluten-substitute diets of course) and of course eating better makes people feel better and going away from that will make them feel worse. If you don't consume dairy for 6 months and then gulp down a glass of milk, you might poop yourself.

Based on what science are you making such bold claims?

The study in the OP clearly states that it dealt strictly with people with IBS and how gluten intake affected their digestive system. The fact that they still had issues without gluten in their diet doesn't mean that a sensitivity doesn't exist. In fact the doctor who ran the study has been quoted as saying that he believes that gluten sensitivity exists, he just doesn't believe that it's responsible for the gut issues people were reporting. He readily admitted that other symptoms such as lack of energy or depression could be the result of a gluten sensitivity and that leads people to attribute other unrelated issues to gluten intake as well.

Obviously it's a complicated issue and there are likely many issues causing peoples' perceived reactions to gluten, but making such silly and groundless claims as "the fact of the matter gluten sensitivity does not exist" and "people simply aren't gluten sensitive" when there's no reliable evidence of that strong stance makes you look foolish.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by cupofjoe

Yes, if it was only that easy....

I had done the reduced carbs, eat lean protein and was eating 'healthy' by your standard. Still had energy issues, ibs, etc. It was only when I eliminated gluten/wheat did it help. I love bread, it was not easy to give up, but I am glad that I did.

Did you ever get tested to see if you are celiac? I don't think anyone here would argue that celiac disease doesn't exist. And your symtoms reduced energy and IBS are essentially the calling cards of celiac disease.

[cupofjoe]

Originally Posted by GGG

Did you ever get tested to see if you are celiac? I don't think anyone here would argue that celiac disease doesn't exist. And your symtoms reduced energy and IBS are essentially the calling cards of celiac disease.

No, I haven't been tested for Celiac disease. The test I did was a wheat allergy test. I think I will be more 'insistent' with my Doctor on this test at my next visit.

Further to this, I don't have a lot of other symptoms associated with Celiac so I have never have insisted upon or had the test recommended to me. You made a good point regarding fatigue, I didn't realize that was a prime symptom - so thank you for that. I will definitely will be checking into this further.

[cupofjoe]

Originally Posted by MattyC

And what does "moderate sensitivity" even mean?

'Moderate sensitivity' means that I could not remember the exact number on wheat allergy test other than it was mid-range on scale they presented it.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by redforever

Again, you prove my point. You act like a complete jerk.

You imply I am new here without even checking to see when I joined. I joined in 2006. You joined in 2013.

It does not matter if everyone believes the new gluten free fad or not. The other poster merely mentioned that going gluten free improved his health and well being.

He never implied that he is a complete believer in gluten free helping everyone. He merely implied that going gluten free improved his life style.

Is it so impossible for you to leave it at that?

And he never said that correlation implies causation. You are the one who jumped on him and implied that he had.

In this case, "You must be new here" was a comically sarcastic remark, generally used when someone needlessly points out an obvious point, for example:

"Mom makes gross chicken noodle soup."
"Oh really? You must be new here."
(This is an exchange between two fictional siblings, in this case, the younger sibling makes a statement to which the older sibling responds. While it is not clear from the example the ages of the two, it should be fairly clear that neither child is in fact "new here")

Nobody cares when you joined, in this example of "nobody", nobody refers to me, because it was a joke. You could've joined in 1906, and you know what? It would've made my comment even better. Relax.

Regarding your defence of his statements, did YOU read the article? My "attack" is based not only on his statements, but the article he presented as a counter point which I feel serves only to further perpetuate pseudoscience and further draw attention away from real gluten intolerance. The main focus of the article is about wheat sensitivity (not gluten sensitivity) which makes the article useless to this discussion. I can't even imagine why anyone would take anything the writer has to say seriously, as near the beginning he says:

"They’re still gluten-free, or wheat-free, or whatever you want to call it."

This very clearly shows that he has no real understanding of the two concepts. They are not interchangeable in any way, and statements like that are careless and idiotic.

Anyways, if you've got a problem with me that you need to turn into a petty pissing contest, just PM me, I always suggest it to people, feel free to take me up on the offer. My general irritability on certain subjects and incredibly dry humour is a terrible mix for the Internet, but unfortunately my own understanding of my demeanour and the understanding of some other posters here who seems to get it leaves me really indifferent to people like yourself. If you can't stand it, you have options, but drive-by comments are self serving and silly.

If however you just wanted to turn my dry humour and condescending speech patterns your way, the least you could do is meet me half way and get the obvious jokes. Don't worry, there's still time, we can come to an understanding and be best friend yet! Fingers crossed.

[nik-]

Yeah, just happening to reduce or remove gluten while also completely overhauling your diet, and then claiming you had a gluten sensitivity seems kinda silly.

[Galakanokis]

Not a gluten free story so a little off topic but a friend posted this story and it stress the importance of a balanced diet. In general eating better will make you feel better.

Article here.

[cupofjoe]

Originally Posted by strombad

People simply aren't gluten sensitive. It's not a thing. Gluten-free diets work because they're healthy (not gluten-substitute diets of course) and of course eating better makes people feel better and going away from that will make them feel worse. If you don't consume dairy for 6 months and then gulp down a glass of milk, you might poop yourself.

Hmm, what seems to be more credible, fanciful statements pulled of thin air such as above or WedMD

But What If You Don't Have Celiac Disease?

Some people may be sensitive to gluten but don’t have outright celiac disease. These people may feel better on a diet with less gluten.
So what's wrong with the rest of us trying a gluten-free diet a try to see how we feel?
For starters, going gluten-free means saying no to many common and nutritious foods. Gluten is a protein found in wheat, barley, and rye. Gluten also shows up in many whole grain foods related to wheat, including bulgur, farro, kamut, spelt, and triticale (a hybrid of wheat and rye). Some celiac disease experts warn patients to steer clear of oats, as well.
Gluten itself doesn’t offer special nutritional benefits. But the many whole grains that contain gluten do. They’re rich in an array of vitamins and minerals, such as B vitamins and iron, as well as fiber. Studies show that whole grain foods, as part of a healthy diet, may help lower risk of heart disease, type-2 diabetes, and some forms of cancer. The 2010 Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommends that half of all carbohydrates in the diet come from whole grain products.
To be sure, a few whole grains don’t contain gluten, including amaranth, millet, and quinoa. But they are far less common than gluten-containing grains. Meeting the dietary guidelines goal is very tough if you have to eliminate wheat, barley, rye, kamut, and other gluten-containing whole grains.

Further to the WedMD article, I do like the point that removing gluten from a person's diet should not be done haphazardly. I do agree that many people stop eating gluten for the wrong reasons and probably are doing more damage than good.

As far as not having milk for 6 months then having it again will make you poop yourself. My question to you, based on your logic, is that every time a person tries a new food or a food that he/she hasn't had for 6 months should they not automatically poop themselves. Things would get pretty messy if this were true....

[redforever]

Originally Posted by strombad

In this case, "You must be new here" was a comically sarcastic remark, generally used when someone needlessly points out an obvious point, for example:

Again, you act like a complete jerk. You could have said, sorry, I meant that sarcastically, but no, you have to imply I am a complete moron.

You continually try to defend your rude behaviour by tossing it off as others misunderstanding you or merely implying, that is how I am, read that into my posts.

In your own words "I might just be a complete jerk" and "I might be politeness-sensitive".

You can get help for that.

[V]

Oh, I'm pretty sure he knows he's a jerk. I think he just thinks it's funny that you think he should care that he's a jerk. It's just a part of his schtick.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by strombad

In this case, "You must be new here" was a comically sarcastic remark, generally used when someone needlessly points out an obvious point, for example:

"Mom makes gross chicken noodle soup."
"Oh really? You must be new here."
(This is an exchange between two fictional siblings, in this case, the younger sibling makes a statement to which the older sibling responds. While it is not clear from the example the ages of the two, it should be fairly clear that neither child is in fact "new here")

Nobody cares when you joined, in this example of "nobody", nobody refers to me, because it was a joke. You could've joined in 1906, and you know what? It would've made my comment even better. Relax.

Regarding your defence of his statements, did YOU read the article? My "attack" is based not only on his statements, but the article he presented as a counter point which I feel serves only to further perpetuate pseudoscience and further draw attention away from real gluten intolerance. The main focus of the article is about wheat sensitivity (not gluten sensitivity) which makes the article useless to this discussion. I can't even imagine why anyone would take anything the writer has to say seriously, as near the beginning he says:

"They’re still gluten-free, or wheat-free, or whatever you want to call it."

This very clearly shows that he has no real understanding of the two concepts. They are not interchangeable in any way, and statements like that are careless and idiotic.

Anyways, if you've got a problem with me that you need to turn into a petty pissing contest, just PM me, I always suggest it to people, feel free to take me up on the offer. My general irritability on certain subjects and incredibly dry humour is a terrible mix for the Internet, but unfortunately my own understanding of my demeanour and the understanding of some other posters here who seems to get it leaves me really indifferent to people like yourself. If you can't stand it, you have options, but drive-by comments are self serving and silly.

If however you just wanted to turn my dry humour and condescending speech patterns your way, the least you could do is meet me half way and get the obvious jokes. Don't worry, there's still time, we can come to an understanding and be best friend yet! Fingers crossed.

I still want to know what happened between you and Mr. Yamato, sad when a friendship falls apart