Omar Khadr back in Canada - Page 6 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

CaptainYooh · 05-23-2014, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzzy

I wish Canada would strip this family of citizenship and send them back where they came from. If this happened in Australia this family would be deported instantly. They don't deserve to call themselves Canadians. They are a disgrace to our flag.

I agree with you in this case. His family is aggressively anti-Canadian. I cannot find any reason or logic as to how people like this are granted residency in Canada. However; making families responsible for actions of one family member is a very dangerous precedent and a threat to democracy. This is what Stalin's regime did to people. It labeled people disagreeing with the regime in any form "enemies of the people" and convicted them to death or camps. Then, the entire family of a convicted "enemy of the people" was persecuted and often killed without any regard for their actual deeds.

MarchHare · 05-23-2014, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzzy

I wish Canada would strip this family of citizenship and send them back where they came from. If this happened in Australia this family would be deported instantly. They don't deserve to call themselves Canadians. They are a disgrace to our flag.

While that might apply for his parents, Omar was born in Canada. He is not an immigrant, and he has no country to be "sent back to".

Jimmy Stang · 05-23-2014, 11:56 AM

The lawsuit seems to be built around a confession given at a place where torture was used to obtain confessions. That's troublesome to me. But I don't think that will stop the lawsuit from proceeding or being successful.

To be clear, though : I don't have any doubt that he's a bad person, and I certainly don't have any sympathy.

undercoverbrother · 05-23-2014, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

Yes. I'm not sure how that's applicable though.

If that wanted to kill him they could have.......

MarchHare · 05-23-2014, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

To be clear, though : I don't have any doubt that he's a bad person, and I certainly don't have any sympathy.

His father is absolute scum, but I have an incredible amount of sympathy for Omar. He was robbed of the chance of a normal life and forced to become a child soldier by his religious extremist parents. He's a victim, not a "bad person".

CaptainCrunch · 05-23-2014, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarchHare

While that might apply for his parents, Omar was born in Canada. He is not an immigrant, and he has no country to be "sent back to".

That's why I'm onboard with granting the ability to strip citizenship from foreign fighters. It was just fortunate (unfortunate choice of words) that he wasn't attacking Canadians.

He was in the employ of a terrorist group fighting against a coalition group that included Canadians.

I get that his dad encouraged him, but he wasn't the traditional child soldier indoctrinated by drugs and torture to pick up an AK-47 and make bombs.

His whole family should have been stripped and sent away a long time ago.

undercoverbrother · 05-23-2014, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarchHare

His father is absolute scum, but I have an incredible amount of sympathy for Omar. He was robbed of the chance of a normal life and forced to become a child soldier by his religious extremist parents. He's a victim, not a "bad person".

I am torn on this.

I wonder, what opportunities he had to get out of that situation prior to throwing the grenade.

CaptainYooh · 05-23-2014, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarchHare

...He's a victim, not a "bad person".

I disagree. He's had a chance to renounce his actions and his parents' views while in jail. He didn't. He had a chance to issue a formal apology to the family of the soldier he killed. He didn't. He's had a chance to renounce violence in the name of religion. He didn't.

I have no doubt he is a bad person and will not become any better.

CaptainCrunch · 05-23-2014, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarchHare

His father is absolute scum, but I have an incredible amount of sympathy for Omar. He was robbed of the chance of a normal life and forced to become a child soldier by his religious extremist parents. He's a victim, not a "bad person".

He's a combination of both.

He wasn't indoctrinated in the same way as the Child Soldier's in Africa, where they're numbed by drugs, and tortured into serving.

He was a willing accomplice that was raised in Canada and at some point had to make the rational decision.

He is not a complete victim he is not a complete villain.

I'm going to find it interesting to see what kind of citizen he is going to be when he gets out, and he will get out.

MarchHare · 05-23-2014, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

If that wanted to kill him they could have.......

No they couldn't. It's a war crime and a violation of the Geneva Convention to execute a wounded enemy combatant. A Canadian soldier was court martialed and dishonourably discharged for this a few years ago. A British Royal Marine was recently sentenced to life in prison for the same offense.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/c...om-the-forces/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...t-8988983.html

undercoverbrother · 05-23-2014, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarchHare

No they couldn't. It's a war crime and a violation of the Geneva Convention to execute a wounded enemy combatant. A Canadian soldier was court martialed and dishonourably discharged for this a few years ago. A British Royal Marine was recently sentenced to life in prison for the same offense.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/c...om-the-forces/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...t-8988983.html

Thanks I have a good grasp on the Geneva Convention, I was a card carrying member for 7 years.

nik- · 05-23-2014, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

If that wanted to kill him they could have.......

Well, they tried to kill him, in the gunfight where the soldier was killed. That's what happens in war.

FlamesAddiction · 05-23-2014, 12:10 PM

The United Nations formerly declared him as a child soldier. I am not sure how much legal weight that carries in a civil case, but if he was legally a soldier, then I can't think that a lawsuit will have any grounds.

puckluck2 · 05-23-2014, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Sure. Just as ridiculous as Canada taking back a convicted terrorist to provide care and support services to him for the rest of his life.

Taking back? Who else should do it? The guy is Canadian. Why should another country have to deal with him? We deport criminals all the time to their country. Why should we not have to deal with ours?

nik- · 05-23-2014, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The United Nations formerly declared him as a child soldier. I am not sure how much legal weight that carries in a civil case, but if he was legally a soldier, then I can't think that a lawsuit will have any grounds.

And what even constitutes "legally a soldier" in Afghanistan? We knew what kind of rag tag, bumble#### place that was. It's not like the people fighting the coalition forces were wearing uniforms.

undercoverbrother · 05-23-2014, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

Well, they tried to kill him, in the gunfight where the soldier was killed. That's what happens in war.

Your knowledge of war must be vast, please tell me more.

MarchHare · 05-23-2014, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Thanks I have a good grasp on the Geneva Convention, I was a card carrying member for 7 years.

Then you understand that battlefield executions are illegal and that his American captors were bound by military law to provide him with medical aid after he was disarmed and no longer considered a threat. So I'm not sure why you'd say that they could have killed him if they wanted to. Sure, they could have put a bullet into him or stood by idly while he died from his wounds, but either of those actions would have made them war criminals.

CaptainYooh · 05-23-2014, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Taking back? Who else should do it? The guy is Canadian. Why should another country have to deal with him? We deport criminals all the time to their country. Why should we not have to deal with ours?

Canada literally fought to have him back. US wanted to keep him; why did Canada not let them keep Khadr for the rest of his life? Why did we want him back to begin with? This is not about a Canadian arrested for kissing someone publicly on Dubai beach. This was a killer that was being prosecuted and handled by our military ally.

blankall · 05-23-2014, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

The lawsuit seems to be built around a confession given at a place where torture was used to obtain confessions. That's troublesome to me. But I don't think that will stop the lawsuit from proceeding or being successful.

To be clear, though : I don't have any doubt that he's a bad person, and I certainly don't have any sympathy.

That and the videos of him building bombs, which were later placed in areas Canadian soldiers were active in. And the testimony of the soldiers who captured him.

undercoverbrother · 05-23-2014, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

Basically I see this as "You didn't just allow my husband's forces to kill you, so I'm suing you".

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Then you understand that battlefield executions are illegal and that his American captors were bound by military law to provide him with medical aid after he was disarmed and no longer considered a threat. So I'm not sure why you'd say that they could have killed him if they wanted to. Sure, they could have put a bullet into him or stood by idly while he died from his wounds, but either of those actions would have made them war criminals.

My response was to this statement. He is alive thanks to those men that he was trying to kill.

I think we should remember that.