Stabbing in Brentwood-5 Dead, 1 Arrested

[peter12]

I can think of maybe 3 people on CP that can be counted on for a reasonable opinion, and not give into the temptation to be a sentimental idiot.

[rubecube]

Can we stop with the "well only someone who was mentally ill could do something like this" crap that's been recurring in this thread? It's pretty damn insulting and degrading to the mentally ill.

[nik-]

delicious irony

[Slava]

Originally Posted by peter12

I can think of maybe 3 people on CP that can be counted on for a reasonable opinion, and not give into the temptation to be a sentimental idiot.

OK, you got me. Who are the other two?

[MarchHare]

Why do I keep opening this thread?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Slava

OK, you got me. Who are the other two?

It's down to one. I see MMF posted a pompous rant. The mighty can fall, I guess.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's down to one.

And I fear that mikeytheredneck doesn't even post here any longer.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by peter12

I can think of maybe 3 people on CP that can be counted on for a reasonable opinion, and not give into the temptation to be a sentimental idiot.

Honestly what is the point of this post? And if you feel that way - why do you bother coming here?

[jayswin]

oops

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Honestly what is the point of this post? And if you feel that way - why do you bother coming here?

He's always played a character, he's just changed it slightly in his latest stint here, to include being crass towards compassion and understanding. Any thread about crime/punishment/homelessness/mental illness etc; He's recognized that CP as a whole has become much more compassionate and understanding on these topics, so he goes the other way for fun.

He's way too obvious with his "agendas" whenever he comes here to post for a month or so. It's a slightly different character each time.

[troutman]

You can be mentally ill and fit to stand trial, at the same time.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by troutman

You can be mentally ill and fit to stand trial, at the same time.

Doesn't fit to stand trial mean you understand the accusation and the proceedings. It doesn't mean you aren't insane, it's that you're cognizant of what's happening.

[troutman]

“unfit to stand trial” means unable on account of mental disorder to conduct a defence at any stage of the proceedings before a verdict is rendered or to instruct counsel to do so, and, in particular, unable on account of mental disorder to

(a) understand the nature or object of the proceedings,
(b) understand the possible consequences of the proceedings, or
(c) communicate with counsel;

The test for fitness is not onerous. It only requires a "limited cognitive capacity" to communicate with counsel and understand the process.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadia...to_Stand_Trial

A mental disorder defence is something else:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder_defence

The defence of mental disorder is codified in section 16 of the Criminal Code of Canada which states, in part:

16. (1) No person is criminally responsible for an act committed or an omission made while suffering from a mental disorder that rendered the person incapable of appreciating the nature and quality of the act or omission or of knowing that it was wrong. [4]

To establish a claim of mental disorder the party raising the issue must show on a balance of probabilities first that the person who committed the act was suffering from a "disease of the mind", and second, that at the time of the offence they were either 1) unable to appreciate the "nature and quality" of the act, or 2) did not know it was "wrong".

The meaning of the word "wrong" was determined in the Supreme Court case of R. v. Chaulk [1990] 3 S.C.R. which held that "wrong" was NOT restricted to "legally wrong" but to "morally wrong" as well.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by troutman

You can be mentally ill and fit to stand trial, at the same time.

Right, but committing horrible atrocities doesn't necessarily mean someone is mentally ill either.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Right, but committing horrible atrocities doesn't necessarily mean someone is mentally ill either.

Just for the record, though I don't think you were speaking directly to me anyways, I was just being patient previously to see if he was mentally ill, not trying to be biggest internet judge.

Totally agree that just because someone does something horrible it equals being mentally ill.

I can't believe I've been cast out of peter12's family. This hurts, hurts so good.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Just for the record, though I don't think you were speaking directly to me anyways, I was just being patient previously to see if he was mentally ill, not trying to be biggest internet judge.

Yeah, I wasn't speaking to anyone directly but there has been some of that sentiment in this thread. A number of people have posted things along the lines of saying that anyone committing these types of atrocities must be mentally ill because it's not something a "normal" person would do, which is completely ignorant and offensive.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, I wasn't speaking to anyone directly but there has been some of that sentiment in this thread. A number of people have posted things along the lines of saying that anyone committing these types of atrocities must be mentally ill because it's not something a "normal" person would do, which is completely ignorant and offensive.

You are no longer a normal person once you murder five people, let alone one, regardless of the status of your mental health. Even if it was justified, and you were defending your family, you are no longer a normal everyday Joe. Anyone that can claim to have killed someone under any circumstance, is far outside the norm.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by pylon

You are no longer a normal person once you murder five people, let alone one, regardless of the status of your mental health. Even if it was justified, and you were defending your family, you are no longer a normal everyday Joe. Anyone that can claim to have killed someone under any circumstance, is far outside the norm.

That's fine. Normal is an entirely subjective term so I'm not going to bother debating you on that. It's one thing to say that someone can't be "normal" and commit these acts and a completely different thing to suggest that only someone who is mentally ill could commit them.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Right, but committing horrible atrocities doesn't necessarily mean someone is mentally ill either.

Of course. It is for experts to determine if mental illness played a part in the in the acts, or the inability to appreciate the acts.

[Erick Estrada]

I'm no psychologist but it's one thing to say flip out on a bus and randomly kill someone but to purposely go to a party with a knife and systematically kill five people of relevance to that individual tells me there was a level of consciousness and commitment to do something any human being would know was wrong. Maybe he wasn't in a good state of mind at the time but I can't believe he would have just blacked out and woke up to a nightmare. Not without being under the influence of heavy drugs or medication I just don't see how this could have been committed without a level of consciousness as it appears highly premeditated.