I tried hard to stay out of this discussion, but I can't resist.
Pretty much, I'm blown away that St. Vincent can garner such a negative response. Her latest album, and specifically the two songs played on SNL, I thought are very accessible and would go over well with anyone who likes rock music.
Someone calling it "meh", or "not my thing", would be expected. But it seems a few here really, really disliked her performances. Which, in a weird way, I want to say thank you for sharing your opinions. Really interesting to consider how music can be highly regarded some, and hated by others.
I actually like St Vincent as well. Her live performances are weird though based on those 2 on SNL, but I think that's kind of her 'point'.
I tend to like some pretty inaccessible music though, so I'm not sure if that comes into play. Based on the general response she's getting here, I'm assuming it does.
I don't get the hate. I think she's immensely talented.
No hate at all. I just think she is the exact opposite of talented. From a purely musical perspective, there is nothing there, not a single authentic/unique/fresh musical idea, zero. Lyrics of the "Birth in Reverse" are trivial and non-imaginative (sit at home, do nothing, masturbate etc.). So, what's there, semaphoric moves? How can a performer this bland get a spot on SNL finale? Personally, I am convinced that this is only possible if she is either a daughter or a girlfriend of some big shot or a friend of big shot's daughter or something like that. I cannot find any other logical explanation.
I studied classical piano and music history for many years and have grown to appreciate all musical genres for what they are. I've over 3,000 CD's and LP's in my collection, including classical, jazz, smooth jazz, funk, rock and alternative music. Anytime something new and fresh is on the horizon, I am all cheers, bring it on. But this?
Sorry for the long rant, your post touched on something I think a lot when listening to some new performers being pushed on us by the networks under "this is THE new art" premise. Let's assume that someone listened to St.Vincent's audition and genuinely proclaimed "Yeah, she is good and she'll sell; let's help her out!" This means their evaluation process was similar to yours. What criteria do you apply when you call her "immensely talented"? I am not attacking your taste at all, just really interested in your perception and thought process, as it is quite different from mine, obviously.
I don't think it was just a live thing. I know music is subjective, but her "music" just sounds awful.
Try listening to this for than 30 seconds. Seriously.
I kind of dig it.
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I studied classical piano and music history for many years...
Yeah, so have I. I'm not sure if you think that makes us experts on the subject, maybe moreso than others, but like I said above, I don't mind it at all. I can see what she's going for. I wouldn't go so far as to say that she's immensely talented, but I'm surprised at the intense negative reaction some are showing towards her here.
...I wouldn't go so far as to say that she's immensely talented, but I'm surprised at the intense negative reaction some are showing towards her here.
The whole point is visibility and reward. If she were singing in a neighborhood pub, I might be clapping politely over a pint and forget her the next day. She's been given a coveted spot on SNL, which kinda demands an explanation of merit. What did she do to deserve this spot? As I said, I cannot find any plausible explanations in what I've heard; thus, I am interested in what others see in it.
This is not about personal tastes, i.e. "like" and "not like", per se. As an example, I don't like country music, as a whole musical genre. It's too boring and primitive for my taste. However; from a performing angle, I think Garth Brooks is very talented musician even though there is not a single song of his that I like or listen to. In other words, one doesn't have to like something to appreciate it's merits.
Dude, Ashlee Simpson was on SNL. Connections or no, if an artist has a spot on the radio, they'll get a spot on SNL. I've long given up trying to understand how one actually gets to that point without a shred of talent, but there are plenty of them out there in commercial music.
I'd put this girl above a lot of the schlep I've seen on SNL.
I've seen a few St. Vincent clips before, remember thinking she was interesting and very good at what she does. Was kind of looking forward to seeing her on SNL but those 2 songs were complete garbage, so bad they could be considered Yoko Ono material.
I'm actually really enjoying St. Vincent's new album, she just keeps getting better/better with each release, and somehow manages to make it look effortless. But her music has so many left turns that it's sometimes hard to digest and causes the polarizing effect.
@alandelrio @st_vincent Annie killed it on SNL last night. Next level.
5:53 PM - 15 May 2014 - Carrie Brownstein
Merit Captain? Does Miley Cyrus have merit?
Annie is considered one of the top guitar players by her peers. Her new album is near the top of the list of best reviewed albums of 2014. NPR pundits call her new live show amongst the best they have seen in a lifetime of concert going.
SNL should be about the avant garde sometimes, not just the popular.
Last edited by troutman; 05-20-2014 at 02:27 PM.
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Was the musical guest tonight a joke? St Vincent? WTF was that?
I thought she was awesome. She did some work with David Byrne not long ago, and I'd never heard of her until then, so I was looking forward to it. I still have that first song stuck in my head. I can see how people wouldn't like her. I liked her hairdoo too. Would like to see what else she can do with a guitar, but obviously art is a big part of her act.
I actually like St Vincent as well. Her live performances are weird though based on those 2 on SNL, but I think that's kind of her 'point'.
I tend to like some pretty inaccessible music though, so I'm not sure if that comes into play. Based on the general response she's getting here, I'm assuming it does.
Isn't that the park ranger who asks the family all the weird questions about their vehicle?
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I did. Liked it for the most part. Sounded and looked a lot like an SNL extension (and why wouldn't it all other things considered). A few really funny sketches. Chris Parnell is usually funny to begin with due to his physical appearance (not unlike Michael Richards), so seeing him in sketches was also good.
Annie is considered one of the top guitar players by her peers. Her new album is near the top of the list of best reviewed albums of 2014. NPR pundits call her new live show amongst the best they have seen in a lifetime of concert going.
SNL should be about the avant garde sometimes, not just the popular.
Miley Cyrus is performing dance pop music oriented at teenagers. I have long been out of that target demographics, unfortunately . No, I don't like her act nor her music. But for those who like Bieber, Spears, Gomez etc., she offers a good deal, because she is performing very professionally. So, yes, she has merit and deserved her stripes from that standpoint, I suppose.
I do have an issue with people bringing "even worse" examples in a sense that "if THAT crap is allowed, then THIS crap is definitely OK". Why not compare to the better examples? SNL had some excellent music performances over the years.
Again, my earlier post was not about one's taste preferences, but about professional musicianship. You refer to her peers praising her as a best guitarist. I don't know who her peers are that think that, but I do have some really good rock-guitar benchmarks to measure against: Hendrix, Gilmour, May, Clapton, Knopfler, Page, Oldfield, Satriani etc. The songs played at SNL did not reveal any of her superior guitar skills, none; nor did any video-clips on YouTube. How do we know that she is a good guitar player, because someone said so?
As for the avant-garde and other genre music at SNL - yes, absolutely, bring it on. To me, Arcade Fire performance early in the year was a decent quality avant-garde played very professionally. St.Vincent's performance at SNL was not a professional quality music, let alone the genre; thus, it did not deserve to be there.
You keep saying it's not a matter of personal taste, but then you dismiss her entirely due to not liking her personally.
Maybe there are others (including those in charge of booking musical guests for SNL) that would disagree with you?
It's fine that you don't like her, but it comes off oddly when you insist that you're completely right and its not a matter of personal preference when it 100% is.
I don't like the vast majority of music that other people I know seem to, but I'm not about to insist it isn't music. Just accept that you don't like/get it, and move on maybe?
Last edited by AC; 05-20-2014 at 05:27 PM.
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Annie Erin Clark’s (St. Vincent) entire career defies definition; she started as a member of barmy psychedelic troupe The Polyphonic Spree before joining Sujfan Stevens’ backing band, and today she’ll team up with David Bryne one moment and make music for Boardwalk Empire the next. Her music mixes gorgeous alluring melodies with harrowing guitar noise and disorientating electronics. As a guitarist she’s adept at picking her moments. She’ll restrain her playing to create a predominate mood. Layering is crucial. Winding riffs lead to crushing chords and drilling walls of noise, and just when you least expect it - a scintillating solo will spring to life.
St. Vincent is the most complete artist on this list. She has the five star albums, she’s legendary live, and she’s the most likely to side step expectation and do something complete bananas. She’s a rock star, she can play, and she offers a new and wholly 21st century take on what a guitarist can be, and can look like.
Of course, one could make an aesthetic case for not liking Annie Clark’s style. Many guitarists aspire to play with smooth, fluid phrasing, looking to emulate players like Robben Ford, Larry Carlton or Joe Satriani, but Clark has chosen a more angular path, reminding me of players like Marc Ribot, Vernon Reid, Adrian Belew and Frank Zappa (all of whom were, coincidentally, huge inspirations for me).
You keep saying it's not a matter of personal taste, but then you dismiss her entirely due to not liking her personally.
Maybe there are others (including those in charge of booking musical guests for SNL) that would disagree with you?...
I actually do like her, she's cute. I don't like her music.
Yes, of course, someone at SNL's music department liked her and thought she'd be good to have. I said exactly that in my first post. I was curious to know WHAT other people like about her music?
. No, I don't like her act nor her music. But for those who like Bieber, Spears, Gomez etc., she offers a good deal, because she is performing very professionally. So, yes, she has merit and deserved her stripes from that standpoint, I suppose.