[News] Penguins call presser 9:30 AM MT. Shero fired. Bylsma TBD.

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Originally Posted by kyuss275

If both fired would the Canucks be interested?

I could see that.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The case of the Penguins is perhaps the best example of why the draft is so important for all teams. Shoot blanks on the draft and even if you have the two best players in the world you'll still fail to win the cup.

Penguins prospect base is rated higher or in the same ballpark as the Flames currently. Is this some sort of personal dislike you have for Shero? When you consider how late the Penguins have drafted and some picks given up in trades the Penguins have a very solid group of defensemen stockpiled with Maatta, Pouliot, Harrington and Bennett looks like he will be a solid pro. In the same period have the Hawks or Kings drafted any better?

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be fired because the goaltending situation and not being able to make the right trades to bolster the team but I actually think they drafted pretty well for the most part.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 1m
Not sure if he has interest in being a GM, but many in PIT believe owner Ron Burkle would like Sidney Crosby's agent Pat Brisson to be GM.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The case of the Penguins is perhaps the best example of why the draft is so important for all teams. Shoot blanks on the draft and even if you have the two best players in the world you'll still fail to win the cup.

I'll disagree on that. They've drafted pretty well actually, and I agree with EE that their prospect pool is better than ours (although, we've been makin' some pretty good strides lately). They have too many players than require being paid quite a bit of money. You can live with Crosby's/Malkin's contracts and work around them, but when you overpay to keep Letang, that's when the cap becomes a serious issue when 3 players make up over of 1/3 of your cap space.

They can't sign quality players without any money to spare, that's why they are going to have a hard enough time to sign Niskanen, who is easily a top 4 player on their team. They'd love to have him back, but they won't have room unless they unload MAF, Letang, or even Neal if need be.

[Huntingwhale]

I'm surprised Shero has been let go. Just last season the entire league was raving about the acquisitions he made at the deadline. I can understand Bylsma. But even early on this season people were making him out to be the best GM in the league.

It will be interesting to see what happens in Pittsburgh this offseason. The new GM will be in a great position, as if he does trade off a bunch of assets, he will get a King's ransom in return.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Penguins prospect base is rated higher or in the same ballpark as the Flames currently. Is this some sort of personal dislike you have for Shero? When you consider how late the Penguins have drafted and some picks given up in trades the Penguins have a very solid group of defensemen stockpiled with Maatta, Pouliot, Harrington and Bennett looks like he will be a solid pro. In the same period have the Hawks or Kings drafted any better?

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be fired because the goaltending situation and not being able to make the right trades to bolster the team but I actually think they drafted pretty well for the most part.

I have nothing against Shero.

But Shero has been the GM for 8 years now. How many of his draft picks are on that team contributing? Olli Maata. edit and Niskanen? Forgetting others I think.

Beau Bennett is not contributing yet.

He's grown one player in 8 years.

How could you conclude he's been good at drafting?

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I have nothing against Shero.

But Shero has been the GM for 8 years now. How many of his draft picks are on that team contributing? Olli Maata. edit and Niskanen? Forgetting others I think.

Beau Bennett is not contributing yet.

He's grown one player in 8 years.

How could you conclude he's been good at drafting?

I have heard the same opinions that his drafting has not been good.

[saillias]

So many house cleanings, it makes me wonder if any Flames staff is on someone's radar for a job. Ward or Conroy in particular.

[Coach]

Pretty sure Niskanen came over in the deal with Neal for Goligoski. Man that was a fleece.

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I have nothing against Shero.

But Shero has been the GM for 8 years now. How many of his draft picks are on that team contributing? Olli Maata. edit and Niskanen? Forgetting others I think.

Beau Bennett is not contributing yet.

He's grown one player in 8 years.

How could you conclude he's been good at drafting?

Niskanen came in a trade from Dallas.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by saillias

So many house cleanings, it makes me wonder if any Flames staff is on someone's radar for a job. Ward or Conroy in particular.

Conroy doesn't have enough experience but he is such likeable guy, he could make a great figure head. One day he is a good bet to become a VP or a GM.
Ward could make a good assistant coach, not enough experience to be the coach.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
PIT assistant GM Jason Botterill likely to take over on an interim basis. Shero likely to immediately become frontrunner for GM job in WSH.

Is that the same Botterill that used to be in the Flames organization?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I have nothing against Shero.

But Shero has been the GM for 8 years now. How many of his draft picks are on that team contributing? Olli Maata. edit and Niskanen? Forgetting others I think.

Beau Bennett is not contributing yet.

He's grown one player in 8 years.

How could you conclude he's been good at drafting?

Jordan Staal is pretty good and there have been misses (Esposito etc) but what GM hasn't? He's also traded guys like Morrow for immediate help. 2008 draft they didn't have a first pick until the 4th round. Since 2010 their drafts have actually been pretty good which is why they have been considered amongst the top 15 prospect bases recently.

The only top teams I can recall over the last decade that have been good at finding top contributors with late picks is the Wings and Sharks. It's not easy finding quality talent picking late every year just ask the Canucks. I feel Shero has done fairly well all things considered.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I have nothing against Shero.

But Shero has been the GM for 8 years now. How many of his draft picks are on that team contributing? Olli Maata. edit and Niskanen? Forgetting others I think.

Beau Bennett is not contributing yet.

He's grown one player in 8 years.

How could you conclude he's been good at drafting?

...and Shero took a friggin goalie 1st overall in the deepest draft in 3 decades.

If he hadn't stumbled onto Crosby he would have been turfed as GM a long time ago.

[saillias]

I thought that was a previous GM, Craig Patrick. Shero was hired later?

Plus that's kind of anachronistic because there wasn't the stigma against taking goalies early that there is now. In the dead puck era especially with guys like JS Giguere and Brodeur... even Kipper you could ride a good goalie to the Cup.

[Mango]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Is that the same Botterill that used to be in the Flames organization?

It is. He's been highly regarded around the management circles for awhile.

[the_only_turek_fan]

I can see why Burke really pushed to get the Treliving hiring done ASAP.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

...and Shero took a friggin goalie 1st overall in the deepest draft in 3 decades.

If he hadn't stumbled onto Crosby he would have been turfed as GM a long time ago.

Actually that's my problem with Shero, you nailed it. Shero had nothing to do with that, that was Craig Patrick.

Craig Patrick picked:

Sidney Crosby
Evgeni Malkin
Marc-Andre Fleury
Brooks Orpik
Rob Scuderi
Kris Letang
Alex Goligoski - turned into Neal
Ryan Whitney turned into Kunitz
Colby Armstrong
Erik Christensen turned into Pascal Dupuis
Maxime Talbot
Tyler Kennedy

Now sure, Patrick had much higher picks but still that is way better than anything Shero's ever done. And saying that Shero didn't pick until the 4th round or things like that is actually Shero's doing. Sure if you go deep and make it to the Cup finals it was worth it. But in these last 4 seasons Shero's been dumping off picks to the trade market to bolster holes in the roster. Unless you hit multiple triples that will deplete you long term which is what is happening.

Those who think Shero was a good GM probably are the same people who think Sutter was a good GM too. Flashy trades, big name players, etc and long-term failure. Because the role of the GM first and foremost is to draft and develop players.

In many ways the Penguins are a more extreme example of the lame Flames circa 2007-2012. Ride a core of good players but significantly mortgage the future because you can't grown depth from within.

[Parallex]

Probably the right move on both counts. The Penguin's rely on Crosby and Malkin far more then is healthy... Shero squandered all the depth in a series of bad moves and depleted to many futures trying to get it back. Bylsma isn't a bad coach IMO but he's certainly no better then just your standard coach. Little risk in letting him go.

Originally Posted by Tinordi

In many ways the Penguins are a more extreme example of the lame Flames circa 2007-2012. Ride a core of good players but significantly mortgage the future because you can't grown depth from within.

I agree, Fortunately for them their core of good players are still fairly young (and headlined by the best player in the world)... they have an opportunity to step back from the brink now.

[PeteMoss]

They've had the same problem for years - no forward depth. Not being able to address it through the draft or trades is a concern.

They do have a boatload of depth forwards as UFAs this summer... so whoever the new GM is will have a ton of open slots to turn those spots over.