Province short teachers to mark diploma exams.....

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by Locke

Teacher salaries are for all 12 months, so they'd be being paid their normal salary as well as an honorarium for doing 'extra work' for marking the exams and to cover travel costs, etc.

So the example of the Tim Horton's kid being paid more per hour on an exam marking day is total nonsense.

Wrong. Our contract is with the CBE and we perform our job with them. We are then asked to go work under a different contract directly for Alberta Education marking the entire provinces exams (including the exams from out of province from schools that use our curriculum and Alberta Ed charges them a substantial fee to use it).

This is then a second job within the same are of education for a different employer. This is why we have to ask the CBE for permission every time to do this and many schools do say no. Thus, it is NOT part of our 12 month contract. Hence the comparison with another job.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

Yes, I do support an all-private system.

Shocking.

I don't even really want to know your answer for this but I'll bite anyways, what is your plan for those children whose parents can't afford private education?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Shocking.

I don't even really want to know your answer for this but I'll bite anyways, what is your plan for those children whose parents can't afford private education?

Vouchers. Take the cost of a publicly-subsidized education and pass it along to parents who can spend it as they wish.

Also, if you increased the supply of schools, price would inevitably drop. Right now, private schools are so incredibly expensive because there are so few of them, and thus, they can only afford to make appeals to the grossly rich. However, I highly doubt the premiums are justified.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by peter12

Vouchers. Take the cost of a publicly-subsidized education and pass it along to parents who can spend it as they wish.

Also, if you increased the supply of schools, price would inevitably drop. Right now, private schools are so incredibly expensive because there are so few of them, and thus, they can only afford to make appeals to the grossly rich. However, I highly doubt the premiums are justified.

You highly doubt?

An assumption based ideology. Impressive.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You highly doubt?

An assumption based ideology. Impressive.

And you assume central planning will do a better job merely because it is the status quo? What an unsurprising lack of imagination.

[calumniate]

Wow, the view must be amazing from on top of that horse

[photon]

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

We are salary employees with the CBE. This is a seperate position where we temporarily work for Alberta Education. We do this non-stop (weekdays and weekends) until it is finished. The salary job with the CBE we have to do at night in our hotels most of us for many hours trying to compelte our marking of our in school exams, during the day we mark the provinces exams. This is why we are given an honorarium. No where in our initial contract for our salaried position is it included that we will mark all the exams in the province. This is why it is an insult when we do both jobs at the same time to cut our pay in half.

Ok I get it now I think.

I don't think it's an insult though since it's not cutting pay in half, it's offering half what they used to for a specific job. They're looking for a set of teachers that are willing to do extra work for extra money. If the "demand" is high (i.e. there were twice as many teachers wanting a Alberta Education marking gig as there were gigs, dunno if that's the case but just assuming) then it certainly would look like they could reduce the compensation and still get enough people interested in the job. Sounds like they over-estimated how many people would take the job at a lower rate.

How much a person is "worth" isn't determined just by what they get paid, so if someone takes a job for less it isn't an insult, it's just what the market value for that job is at that time. No one takes them up on it they'll have to increase it to make it more attractive.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

Vouchers. Take the cost of a publicly-subsidized education and pass it along to parents who can spend it as they wish.

How do you intend to determine what the cost of a publicly-subsidized education is? What about children with disabilities? Would their vouchers be substantially larger than those children without?

Also, if you increased the supply of schools, price would inevitably drop.

Supply might increase but I'd imagine that the costs to run these schools is going to increase along with it. Would there at least be some baseline standards that schools would have to comply with in order to prevent cost-cutting measures that negatively affect the child's education?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by peter12

And you assume central planning will do a better job merely because it is the status quo? What an unsurprising lack of imagination.

You've betrayed yourself already, peter.

I've never staked a claim in that regard. You're the one staking a claim on assumptions you've made informed from your overall laissez faire attitude.

Like the gay-straight alliance post that you didn't respond to, you've made an uninformed assumption based on little more than a rudimentary understanding of a situation, applied your 'free market' to it and proclaimed it not only as a viable alternative, but as the desired apparatus for delivering education to the masses.

I know you have no intention of responding with anything more than glib mannered redirection, but, if we're all such idiots, enlighten us with something more than an incomplete sentence.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

We are salary employees with the CBE. This is a seperate position where we temporarily work for Alberta Education. We do this non-stop (weekdays and weekends) until it is finished. The salary job with the CBE we have to do at night in our hotels most of us for many hours trying to compelte our marking of our in school exams, during the day we mark the provinces exams. This is why we are given an honorarium. No where in our initial contract for our salaried position is it included that we will mark all the exams in the province. This is why it is an insult when we do both jobs at the same time to cut our pay in half.

It's not an insult so don't be a baby. If you don't want to do it, then don't. Nobody is forcing you and you can't get fired from being a teacher so what's the problem? Some people don't mind putting in extra effort to do what needs to be done, and people like you do. Don't worry about it, the rest of us will take care of it.

I don't refer to my contract every time I'm posed with a new task because I'm a grown up and understand I need to go above and beyond when looking at the big picture of what my company needs to accomplish. Who else should be marking these tests? Of course it needs to be teachers.

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

Wrong. Our contract is with the CBE and we perform our job with them. We are then asked to go work under a different contract directly for Alberta Education marking the entire provinces exams (including the exams from out of province from schools that use our curriculum and Alberta Ed charges them a substantial fee to use it).

This is then a second job within the same are of education for a different employer. This is why we have to ask the CBE for permission every time to do this and many schools do say no. Thus, it is NOT part of our 12 month contract. Hence the comparison with another job.

Quit worrying about who your employer is and look at who your customer is: students. It doesn't matter who signs your cheque; your job of educating and grading students hasn't changed.

And holy crap, here you are again with the "it is NOT part of our 12-month contract". Guy, people that work in the real world are expected to be somewhat flexible to accomplish what needs to be done within their organization. Did I go to university for four years to become a writer so I could stay late five nights in a row putting marketing message stickers on water bottles? Of course not, but after my day job is done I am occasionally required to help in other areas of our business so the company as a whole accomplishes what it needs to do. You have completely lost sight of the bigger picture of what is required of you and, frankly, it's ridiculous.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

How do you intend to determine what the cost of a publicly-subsidized education is? What about children with disabilities? Would their vouchers be substantially larger than those children without?



Supply might increase but I'd imagine that the costs to run these schools is going to increase along with it. Would there at least be some baseline standards that schools would have to comply with in order to prevent cost-cutting measures that negatively affect the child's education?

Given that education in this province, for the most part, is centrally planned from a single department in the bureaucracy. They, by definition, have limited knowledge, but exaggerated confidence. This will inevitably distort their projections for educational demand. They obviously suffer enough shortfalls in their attempts to provide education to the general populace, that it must be laughable when services are provided to specific populations, such as the handicaps.

Even so, vouchers could be introduced as a simple measure to pave the way for a more free private system. Cash would simply be transferred to parents based on funding already available. I assume you agree that parents with handicapped children know what is best for them, and bureaucrats don't.

Your second comment really confuses me. How would costs increase in a system that doesn't subscribe to one-sized fits all? It would make sense to have a range of costs for parents and children with a range of needs. Right now, our system does a terrible job of providing that range.

[Sliver]

And BTW, Winnipeg Fan, if you worked at my company and pulled that "it's not my job" BS I would fire you on the spot. I've done it. I love doing it. People with that attitude are a cancer in a business.

Many companies have cyclical slow/busy seasons. June would be a busy season in your industry. The busy times are when you get to see who your star employees are and where the fat needs to be trimmed.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Sliver

And BTW, Winnipeg Fan, if you worked at my company and pulled that "it's not my job" BS I would fire you on the spot. I've done it. I love doing it. .

Wait what? You can at the drop of a hat fire people for uttering one sentence "That is note in my job description".

Hmmmmm

I love doing it

What is wrong with you?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Wait what? You can at the drop of a hat fire people for uttering one sentence "That is note in my job description".

Hmmmmm

Well you can if you pay severance, or if you don't pay severance and consistently hire people that know dick all about labour laws.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Well you can if you pay severance, or if you don't pay severance and consistently hire people that know dick all about labour laws.

Sliver, re-writing labour laws one lawsuit at a time.....

[jeffman]

The scantron machine broke down?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Wait what? You can at the drop of a hat fire people for uttering one sentence "That is note in my job description".

Hmmmmm



What is wrong with you?

One of the joys of working in the private sector is the infrequent (but still regular) cull of unproductive workers.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by peter12

One of the joys of working in the private sector is the infrequent (but still regular) cull of unproductive workers.

Please explain how that is a "joy"? I have fired people and it is ####ing aweful, unless you are a heartless dick.

[photon]

Originally Posted by peter12

I assume you agree that parents with handicapped children know what is best for them, and bureaucrats don't.

Don't want to get into the rest, but I can definitely say no to this.

Some parents with handicapped children sometimes THINK they know what's best for them, but usually the more confident they are in that the more wrong they are.

In my experience the bureaucrats don't have anything specific to say with regards to it at all other than to allocate resources. Whether those resources are enough for all scenarios can be debated, but I've never had a bureaucrat tell me what to do with my son, only provide access to resources, experienced people who in turn work with me so together we can come up with what's best for him.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Please explain how that is a "joy"? I have fired people and it is ####ing aweful, unless you are a heartless dick.

We've been over this before. I'm a heartless dick.