Ring Road To Nowhere

[burn_this_city]

Isn't it somewhat ridiculous to bray about $135M when we spent multiples of that on an airport tunnel?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Isn't it somewhat ridiculous to bray about $135M when we spent multiples of that on an airport tunnel?

2x is a multiple, yes.

I don't think people should be whining about either.

I do see reason to at the very least have second thoughts about the $5B price tag of the provincial portion of the SWRR though.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by fotze

It is childish for both sides to do it. But it challenges the belief where Calgarians think that if its a road, open up the goddamn bank and approve that yesterday. If it is anything else, lets be fiscal hawks.

Bet there is a lot more fat that can be cut from the $5 billion ring road that pretty much no one even questioned ever (until now) than the bike thing? But no we are fiscal hawks, just really bad at math fiscal hawks.

######ed how much is spent on subsidizing housing choices by means of reducing commutes. Left wingers make me want to puke.

I agree with you and that's great. Thing is that I'm not sure any alderman has any more weight on the $5B than you or I do? Its a provincial roadway, so really its for the MLAs to argue and debate. It would be no different than an MLA weighing in on the Peace Bridge and complaining about the costs...good for you, but its not under your jurisdiction.

I also don't think that they should just open their wallet and build more roads (and frankly I'm skeptical about the effective impact of this for the SW commuter complaining about getting downtown). That said, we argued and negotiated for decades to get this access and now, after its all finally agreed upon, we decide that its not really necessary? While I think its not incredibly useful and there are other areas I would prioritize over this, I just assume that there are people smarter than me making these decisions.

[ken0042]

There is a sound argument that $5B would better server the people of Calgary by building the SE-NC LRT, the 8th ave subway, and rebuilding Crowchild between 17 ave SW and 24 ave NW.

However not only is the SW portion important to a good part of the city, but to the province as a whole. The SW portion will be the first leg of a true Trans Canada by-pass. Vehicles looking to bypass Calgary will be able to use current hwy 901-22X and then get back onto Hwy 1 with no additional distance required. (as opposed to 201 NE-NW which is longer.)

Add to the fact that it took decades to get the Tsuu Tina to reach an agreement; I really don't see any choice but to complete it now.

[Madman]

Originally Posted by ken0042

There is a sound argument that $5B would better server the people of Calgary by building the SE-NC LRT, the 8th ave subway, and rebuilding Crowchild between 17 ave SW and 24 ave NW.

However not only is the SW portion important to a good part of the city, but to the province as a whole. The SW portion will be the first leg of a true Trans Canada by-pass. Vehicles looking to bypass Calgary will be able to use current hwy 901-22X and then get back onto Hwy 1 with no additional distance required. (as opposed to 201 NE-NW which is longer.)

Add to the fact that it took decades to get the Tsuu Tina to reach an agreement; I really don't see any choice but to complete it now.

Exactly. The alderman throwing up their arms now seem to think this is Calgary's 5 billion and they can spend it however they want.

The ring road is not simply a commuter time saver as they are painting it to be, as Ken said it is a key component to transportation in the province.

Stick with organizing terrible festivals Druh.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by ken0042

However not only is the SW portion important to a good part of the city, but to the province as a whole. The SW portion will be the first leg of a true Trans Canada by-pass. Vehicles looking to bypass Calgary will be able to use current hwy 901-22X and then get back onto Hwy 1 with no additional distance required. (as opposed to 201 NE-NW which is longer.)

That is an interesting idea that I hadn't thought of, but obviously the highway people have. The 901 designation basically means a "proposed realignment", so one day, maybe, the Trans Canada would be use that corridor (with 22X) from Gleichen, join up with Stoney, and skirt around the city on the SW portion of the ring road. It would be more efficient that going through the city, or even around the North part of Stoney. If it isn't doubled, however, I could see it becoming a bit of a nightmare.

Is this something that the province is looking to do in the near future, or is this on the very long term horizon? I guess they've got a fair bit of time before the SW portion of Stoney is completed, but I'm not sure that the money, need, or wherewithal exists to complete it.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

Is this something that the province is looking to do in the near future, or is this on the very long term horizon? I guess they've got a fair bit of time before the SW portion of Stoney is completed, but I'm not sure that the money, need, or wherewithal exists to complete it.

If you look on their website, there are plans already done showing how the highway would divert onto 901 at Gliechen via a new route (I believe it was just North of it?) and it would be twinned into Calgary. It would connect with Stoney Trail and they would follow it up to 16th Avenue.

[Tron_fdc]

This is why I HATE politics.

You had anti-cycling guys complaining about cost for downtown bike lanes, whose wards were on the outskirts of the city.

The guys wanting the cycling lanes are now the guys complaining about the ring road, which just happens to affect the areas of the anti cycling guys.

We also have people (the mayor, nonetheless) "making note" that the cost is similar to an LRT lane to another portion of the city.

WTF is the point of all this? We need the effing road done, and it's VITAL to so much mkore than just the city (as Ken pointed out). Pick your battles (mayor and aldermen), because this whole "debate" and comments REEK of a kindergarten sandbox argument.

I mean hey, maybe there's a reason for all this, but it sure comes across as a petty council squabble.

[Southside]

Nenshi can't get behind the SW leg because, well because the SW isn't the NE.

He should show more leadership, as others have already pointed out, the SW portion is about completing a project that benefits the whole of the province and indeed nation as an important transportation route. Pondering how else already committed funds could be spent is pointless.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Madman

Exactly. The alderman throwing up their arms now seem to think this is Calgary's 5 billion and they can spend it however they want.

The ring road is not simply a commuter time saver as they are painting it to be, as Ken said it is a key component to transportation in the province.

According to the City's GM of Transportation, this portion of the RR will be for commuting as opposed to truck traffic moving goods and services. As such, it would be in the City's domain rather than the Province's. The $5B should be given to the City for it to decide how it can be most effectively and efficiently used to meet the demands on its list of transportation priorities.

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by Addick

According to the City's GM of Transportation, this portion of the RR will be for commuting as opposed to truck traffic moving goods and services. As such, it would be in the City's domain rather than the Province's. The $5B should be given to the City for it to decide how it can be most effectively and efficiently used to meet the demands on its list of transportation priorities.

No

[Slava]

Originally Posted by fotze

Wait, you actually think she thinks she can stop the ring road? That's not how I took it those questions.

No, I just don't see the point of being difficult here though? Shes being difficult and annoying just to be difficult and annoying.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Southside

Nenshi can't get behind the SW leg because, well because the SW isn't the NE.

You'll have to expand on this.

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by Slava

No, I just don't see the point of being difficult here though? Shes being difficult and annoying just to be difficult and annoying.

Everyone should do what they are good at.

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

You'll have to expand on this.

I think he's saying that because Nenshi is Muslim, he would give more importance to a NE-related project, since most NE residents are of East Indian descent.

[RW99]

I really dont think it is about religion. There is a TED talks somewhere, Nenshi had a really good argument about city services and how the NE gets the worst of it. I'm at work so I cant pull up the link.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Stealth22

I think he's saying that because Nenshi is Muslim, he would give more importance to a NE-related project, since most NE residents are of East Indian descent.

Not most, but a fair portion.

Originally Posted by Addick

According to the City's GM of Transportation, this portion of the RR will be for commuting as opposed to truck traffic moving goods and services. As such, it would be in the City's domain rather than the Province's. The $5B should be given to the City for it to decide how it can be most effectively and efficiently used to meet the demands on its list of transportation priorities.

In the short term, it would be primarily communting, but in the long term, if (or rather when) Trans-Canada has a freeway connection to Highway 22X/901, and the Sarcee Trail/SWRR portion goes past Stoney Trail south, there could be a lot of truck traffic making use of this part of the road. It's a short term, and long term investment that will benefit the city, region, and province.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by gasman

While I am definitely not a fan of Druh Farrell, I do think there is legitimacy in challenging the per user cost of the ring road.

If you like, but don't be disingenuous about it. The usage numbers presented in the article pitted the best-case scenario of 20 years from now for the cycle track against the predicted initial usage of SW Stoney. Then they divided that one-hour theoretical average against total cost without consideration to the fact that while the cycle track can only really be used 6-8 months out of the year, SW Stoney would be used 12 months of the year.

If you take just the portions that the city of Calgary is (or would have to) spend, then you need only about 20,000 cars per hour at peak for the per use cost to roughly match that 2034 scenario for the bike lanes. And there can be little doubt that we'd surpass 20,000 when the road is built out, especially if the TCH realigned to utilize it - long before the year 2034.

[Jimmy Stang]

I don't think that this is being brought up to halt or alter the ring road plans. Rather, it is just way of the city saying to the province : "don't forget about us and our unfunded projects the next time you're chucking money around!"

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Joborule

In the short term, it would be primarily communting, but in the long term, if (or rather when) Trans-Canada has a freeway connection to Highway 22X/901, and the Sarcee Trail/SWRR portion goes past Stoney Trail south, there could be a lot of truck traffic making use of this part of the road. It's a short term, and long term investment that will benefit the city, region, and province.

While it may provide some great benefits in the future, we have more than $5B worth of projects needed today/yesterday that surely must outweigh such benefits with their own (both short and long-term).