Phaneuf being shopped by the Leafs

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Split98

Best typo ever.

And Kronwall, Quincey and Smith have established themselves as valuable defenceman on Detroit. Unless Dion has the off-season of a life-time he would absolutely be seeing 2nd pairing minutes while they try and sort out his defensive game.

Dion would be a high-potential project for them. His currently play would be a travesty in Wings silks.

Dion is not as good as Quincy or Smith? What? Kronwall isn't even the ideal #1 guy.

There are plenty of players who look good on a team like Detroit. If they played in Toronto's system, they'd be thought of as crap.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by codynw

By "needs help" do you mean he needs two top pairing defencemen on his team so that he can play second pairing minutes? If so, I agree with you.

He would be the best defenseman on teams like New York, Pittsburgh and Anaheim easy. This "Second/Third Pairing" talk is nuts. He was +19 most of the season in Toronto shutting-down the NHL's top stars.

He's #1 in the ENTIRE NHL the past 2 season in QOC stats. He finished 11th in Norris voting last season. But he's not even a top 50 or 80 NHL D-Man? What?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

What garbage. second pairing on the Flames? LOL.

And would he be third pairing on that awful Pens defense?

Look around at the "Contenders", their top-pairing guys aren't even considered that good. Teams like Anaheim have guys playing top pairing minutes who aren't even considered top-pairing guys by most in the league.

If you're saying he's not a first pairing on a bottom feeder then you're telling me he's not amongst the top 80 NHL D-Men. Ridiculous.

Contenders don't get bounced in the second round of the playoffs. Anyone who knows anything about hockey would tell you that Pittsburgh wasn't going anywhere with that defence core.

I actually think Beauchemin, Fowler, Lindholm and Souray are all better defencemen than Phaneuf. So yeah, he would be third pairing on the Ducks. Plus Lindholm and Fowler are very young and improving. The last thing Anaheim needs is more defencemen.

Maybe Phaneuf would be top pairing on the Oilers, that's about it though, he's a terrible defenceman.

Anyways, who does Phaneuf replace on the Flames top pairing? Giordano or Brodie?

[sevenarms]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

He would be the best defenseman on teams like New York, Pittsburgh and Anaheim easy. This "Second/Third Pairing" talk is nuts. He was +19 most of the season in Toronto shutting-down the NHL's top stars.

He's #1 in the ENTIRE NHL the past 2 season in QOC stats. He finished 11th in Norris voting last season. But he's not even a top 50 or 80 NHL D-Man? What?

I believe the argument is that his skillset is better suited to second pairing minutes. Dion isn't a shut down defenceman and shouldn't be iced as such. The years he excelled in Calgaru, he was getting offensive zone starts and wasnt facing the other teams best lines.

The last couple seasons he's played the tough minutes and it's exposed his weaknesses. If he were to go to a team and have an offensive support role he'd probably flourish. Give him similar ice to Duncan Keith and Dion would do a lot better.

He's better than a 50-80 dman but he can't handle the difficult minutes.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Contenders don't get bounced in the second round of the playoffs.

So if Boston gets bounced tonight they were never a contender? Ditto with LA or Anaheim?

[Yrebmi]

I tend to skulk around various other message boards. Ducks, Nucks, and Greasers in particular. It is good to get a feel for opinions from separate or even opposing bias.
Take it for what it is worth Tuna, the low opinion of Dion Phaneuf is not CP a singularity.

[Vulcan]

I watched Dion a little bit this season and he seemed to be getting better at containing forwards around and behind the net. He was no longer waiving his stick at the puck and watching as they skated unmolested to the net. He'd probably be fine on the second pairing and still has some skills on the PP.

[formulate]

The funny thing about a lot of hockey fans is they never see a middle ground, where the truth usually sits.

BigTuna is absolutely right in saying that Phaneuf played the 'hardest' minutes of any d-man in the league. I personally believe this level of competition is above his level of ability, as shown by mistake-prone play and possession numbers hanging around 40% (aka somewhere in between Chris Butler and Brian McGrattan). Also worth mentioning that Gio and Brodie were both top 15 (toughest) in competition and zone starts. Not like either had it easy.

That said, Phaneuf has shown to be a dominating offensive defensman when not saddled with crazy-tough minutes. If he played the type of minutes that guys like Karlsson, Doughty, Keith or even Pietrangelo or Kronwall play, I personally believe he'd go back to being a break-even possession guy who could score at at least 0.5PPG. Yes, he's mistake-prone, but so are a lot of good defensemen at times. I truly believe that a lot of teams would love to have him as a #2 on a more protected top pairing (a la Keith/Seabrook, where Hjalmarsson and Oduya play the shutdown role) or as an elite #3 with PP minutes (think maybe Shattenkirk or Wisniewski). At 7 million, probably not what you want. At 5?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Take it for what it is worth Tuna, the low opinion of Dion Phaneuf is not CP a singularity.

Neither is the low opinion of Tuna's opinions!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

He would be the best defenseman on teams like New York, Pittsburgh and Anaheim easy. This "Second/Third Pairing" talk is nuts. He was +19 most of the season in Toronto shutting-down the NHL's top stars.

LMAO!

It says many things about Dion Phaneuf that you had to cherry pick +/- to try and make a positive argument.

However, yes. At one arbitrary point in time, he was +19 on the season. Then came March (-15) and April (-3), and he was a significant reason why the Leafs went 5-14-1 over that period to epic fail right out of the playoffs.

Also, the fact that he faced the highest QoC in the league doesn't mean he should have. Chris Butler, after all, once played on our top pairing with Jay Bouwmeester. I doubt you would argue he is actually a #2 defenceman.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

So if Boston gets bounced tonight they were never a contender? Ditto with LA or Anaheim?

if boston gets bounced then no they aren't contenders this year. pretty simple. it's been said a million times regular season counts for nothing in the playoffs

[Jason14h]

if boston gets bounced then no they aren't contenders this year. pretty simple.

What if Montreal sweeps to the cup. Were they contenders then?

To say the team with the best record in the league wasn't a contender is purely asinine or you don't know the definition of contender

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

What if Montreal sweeps to the cup. Were they contenders then?

To say the team with the best record in the league wasn't a contender is purely asinine or you don't know the definition of contender

if montreal sweeps to the cup then they are the best team the league. to say otherwise is asinine

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by trublmaker

if montreal sweeps to the cup then they are the best team the league. to say otherwise is asinine

A 'contender' is a team who is seen as having a solid chance of winning a cup before the playoffs start, not just the Western and Eastern champions. What a silly narrow-minded way of thinking.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

A 'contender' is a team who is seen as having a solid chance of winning a cup before the playoffs start, not just the Western and Eastern champions. What a silly narrow-minded way of thinking.

every team that makes the playoffs is a contender, get that thru your head.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by trublmaker

every team that makes the playoffs is a contender, get that thru your head.

Quit fence hopping and define what makes a team a 'contender' already so it can be ridiculed.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Contenders don't get bounced in the second round of the playoffs. Anyone who knows anything about hockey would tell you that Pittsburgh wasn't going anywhere with that defence core.

I actually think Beauchemin, Fowler, Lindholm and Souray are all better defencemen than Phaneuf. So yeah, he would be third pairing on the Ducks. Plus Lindholm and Fowler are very young and improving. The last thing Anaheim needs is more defencemen.

Maybe Phaneuf would be top pairing on the Oilers, that's about it though, he's a terrible defenceman.

Anyways, who does Phaneuf replace on the Flames top pairing? Giordano or Brodie?

Anaheim is getting some good minutes in the playoffs with their young Ds Fowler, Lindholm, Vatanen and even Sbisa. Not sure they would want to add Dion Phaneuf at all. If they want physical D with booming shot they already have Beauchemin. Even Bryan Allen is dependable while Souray can still play in the NHL(barely).
I think Ducks is starting to fill in their rosters with young players starting with Ds, then in goals. Adding Phaneuf will ruin their plan. Besides Toronto might ask for Ducks young players.

[MissTeeks]

Kiss of death?

James Mirtle@mirtle · 31m

Shanahan gave Phaneuf a vote of confidence today. Explained he wants to try to help him be better captain and work with him.

[jammies]

The Dion may not be a #1 defenceman on many teams, but he sure isn't a #3 on many (more likely any) either. He is better than every defenceman not named Giordano on Calgary, for one - some of you are seriously overrating Brodie if you think he's already a real #2. The kid is getting to be good, but he's not good enough yet to be that on any team except the Flames, Edmonton, or Buffalo.

Hyperbole is all well and good when one is mocking the Oilers or the Canucks, but watching a few highlights of him getting owned doesn't immediately translate into him being a pluglier version of Wideman. He's a 1a-2 guy on a good team, but is forced into being The Guy on a team with a woeful defence, and that magnifies his deficiencies.

That being said, I'm not in favour of retreads unless it's on the cheap, which he definitely wouldn't be. Just try to stop the silly posts before someone claims that we have "six Phaneufs on our team already!".

[T@T]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If "Mark" is Mark Giordano, I'm sure he'd be pretty excited about one of his better friends in the game of hockey coming back to Calgary.

Gio and Dion are friends.

I could have heard a pile of but I doubt it. What I was told by the time Dion left he didn't have too many friends left.
Good friends useally go to each others weddings, maybe your confused with another player.