Woman attacks man on Edmonton train

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

key word(s)

That's the point I'm trying to make? Pizza and CSW seem to think that if someone swings at you, that gives you free reign to lay the uncontrolled smack down. That's not the case. Whatever you do, if it goes to court, you will have to prove that it was a reasonable and justifiable amount of force.

In my example, breaking someone's arms and fracturing their ribs because they took a swing or two at you couldn't possibly be viewed as reasonable.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

That's the point I'm trying to make? Pizza and CSW seem to think that if someone swings at you, that gives you free reign to lay the uncontrolled smack down. That's not the case. Whatever you do, if it goes to court, you will have to prove that it was a reasonable and justifiable amount of force.

In my example, breaking someone's arms and fracturing their ribs because they took a swing or two at you couldn't possibly be viewed as reasonable.

I was in agreement with your post.

I wanted to draw attention to the term you used.

As you can see from some of the post in this thread.............

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Situation 1: you start swinging at a person, they give you a shot in the chops knocking you to the ground, you discontinue your attack. This is fine.

Situation 2: you start swinging at a person, they give you a shot in the chops knocking you to the ground, you discontinue your attack. They decide to play soccer with your head or practice UFC ground and pound on you. Not ok.

I do get what you are saying, and following the convo here, clearly the "reasonable" part is key. But how to determine what is reasonable IMO is very debatable. I defend my self put someone down to the ground and discontinue. What if they get back even more enraged and now look for a weapon or something (as in the road rage example in this thread). Why should someone have to wait for that to happen. I get you shouldn't beat someone to death, but I'd also understand if someone who was attacked knocked their attacker down, and then continued after to ensure that the attacker wasn't able to get back up in the moment and become more escalated.

[Bill Bumface]

Woman = one

Women = many

[CaptainCrunch]

on a side note, those pants are spectacular

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I do get what you are saying, and following the convo here, clearly the "reasonable" part is key. But how to determine what is reasonable IMO is very debatable. I defend my self put someone down to the ground and discontinue. What if they get back even more enraged and now look for a weapon or something (as in the road rage example in this thread). Why should someone have to wait for that to happen. I get you shouldn't beat someone to death, but I'd also understand if someone who was attacked knocked their attacker down, and then continued after to ensure that the attacker wasn't able to get back up in the moment and become more escalated.

Are you bigger than them? Are they bigger than you? Did they get up right away? Are you able to retreat while they are on the ground? Do you hear police sirens on the way? What was the nature of the attack? Do you have any self-defense training?

It's impossible to go on a message board and say "this situation is ok, this one isn't".

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I do get what you are saying, and following the convo here, clearly the "reasonable" part is key. But how to determine what is reasonable IMO is very debatable. I defend my self put someone down to the ground and discontinue. What if they get back even more enraged and now look for a weapon or something (as in the road rage example in this thread). Why should someone have to wait for that to happen. I get you shouldn't beat someone to death, but I'd also understand if someone who was attacked knocked their attacker down, and then continued after to ensure that the attacker wasn't able to get back up in the moment and become more escalated.

If they continue their attack, you could try to get away from the situation or continue to defend yourself. Personally, if the guy came back with a screw driver, I'm probably gonna get out of there because I don't wanna get stabbed. If you felt confident enough to defend yourself empty handed against a guy with a screwdriver then you're a better man than I.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Are you bigger than them? Are they bigger than you? Did they get up right away? Are you able to retreat while they are on the ground? Do you hear police sirens on the way? What was the nature of the attack? Do you have any self-defense training?

It's impossible to go on a message board and say "this situation is ok, this one isn't".

This is nice and all, but you aren't exactly going to measure out, or be able to measure out all those factors in the heat of the moment when you are scared and potentially fighting for you life.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a tough guy thing, as Zulu stated, I'm looking for any non violent exit if I was attacked, including running away especially if there is a weapon involved, but only if I think I can do it. If you feel you have to defend, my point being is why is it on the person who'd defending themselves to have to establish in the heat of the moment what "reasonable" is?

My take, if you attack someone and they make some "bad" decisions in regards to what was "reasonable force" when they are scared and defending themselves and don't feel comfortable risking their attacker getting up........on a personal level I'm going to feel pretty comfortable cutting them some slack and not worrying to much about it they went overboard. Don't attack people and you don't need to worry about your victim making some bad choices and "going to far". Let's stop over indexing on the victims accountablility in sitautions, drives me nuts

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

If they continue their attack, you could try to get away from the situation or continue to defend yourself. Personally, if the guy came back with a screw driver, I'm probably gonna get out of there because I don't wanna get stabbed. If you felt confident enough to defend yourself empty handed against a guy with a screwdriver then you're a better man than I.

I just told him "if you take another step towards me with that screwdriver I am going to send you to the hospital". The guy was totally rocked by the first punch as it was so solid I didn't even feel it. I grew up fighting in hockey, wrestling, boxing and MMA so I wasn't even really worried about him having a screwdriver but at the same time I warned him things were going to get a whole lot worse for him if he tried to use it. The funny thing is I looked his name up after and he was an amateur mma fighter.

[Erick Estrada]

I have to admit if a woman in the LRT started acting like that next to me and pulled that jaw/teeth thing coming towards me I would have been ready to defend myself. Nobody here can say for sure how they would have handled that as it was pretty random and bizarre. I wouldn't have confronted her again like the guy did but I can't say I wouldn't have dropped her during the initial contact as sometimes your self defense mechanism takes control in the heat of the moment.

[_Q_]

Can't believe I'm the first to say this, but I'd hit that.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I have to admit if a woman in the LRT started acting like that next to me and pulled that jaw/teeth thing coming towards me I would have been ready to defend myself. Nobody here can say for sure how they would have handled that as it was pretty random and bizarre. I wouldn't have confronted her again like the guy did but I can't say I wouldn't have dropped her during the initial contact as sometimes your self defense mechanism takes control in the heat of the moment.

I would be a lot bigger than her so I would just restrain her and hold her on the ground until police arrived. Now, if it was a male he would be eating fist after the first punch he threw and would be restrained (by rear naked choke if neccessary).

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Can't believe I'm the first to say this, but I'd hit that.

Would it be worth the $500 fine?

[Cuz]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I have to admit if a woman in the LRT started acting like that next to me and pulled that jaw/teeth thing coming towards me I would have been ready to defend myself. Nobody here can say for sure how they would have handled that as it was pretty random and bizarre. I wouldn't have confronted her again like the guy did but I can't say I wouldn't have dropped her during the initial contact as sometimes your self defense mechanism takes control in the heat of the moment.

I agree, I would have defended myself during the initial attack as well, but if I had seen her behaviour prior to the attack, I would have probably, at minimum, moved from that spot on the train.