East Village toilets now closed

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by irrevocable

Yeah I get the whole "there are good, decent, homeless folk" I do, believe me. I do, however, see a multitude of homeless on a daily basis.. regular interaction.. and to be quite clear: There are a MASSIVE amount of them abusing certain agencies. CUPS, home placement, etc. They don't change behavior patterns and continue to use street drugs and alcohol.

I'm sick of them.

I dont disagree that there are problems with some. However, some of these people have upwards of 100 hospital visits a year and ridiculously high police interaction etc. I think for at least some, if they were given a place to live, it could lead to a better life. I think it's a lot harder to make it on the street, especially dealing with certain issues, as opposed to when you have a safe and stable environment. It would cost a lot less if it could help contribute to many homeless people avoiding using so health and criminal justice resources (which costs the general population more than they know)

Just a thought.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by irrevocable

Yeah I get the whole "there are good, decent, homeless folk" I do, believe me. I do, however, see a multitude of homeless on a daily basis.. regular interaction.. and to be quite clear: There are a MASSIVE amount of them abusing certain agencies. CUPS, home placement, etc. They don't change behavior patterns and continue to use street drugs and alcohol.

I'm sick of them.

I think the best part to come out of this post is the phrase:

"use alcohol"

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by strombad

I think the best part to come out of this post is the phrase:

"use alcohol"

You don't think that people who use alcohol are the scum of the earth?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Rathji

You don't think that people who use alcohol are the scum of the earth?

Well anyone who uses alcohol is clearly a third rate citizen that deserves to live in a fenced off area away from my 2.5 children, beautiful model wife, and precious lawn, but "scum" seems a little harsh.

[FireFly]

Fore those of you who are suggesting that they 'decentralize' the DI, I would suggest you volunteer at the DI for a day and ask them for some statistics. They actually operate a number of housing facilities, as well as a number of employment training facilities such as a woodshop, etc.

Are there people with addictions issues at the DI? Certainly. Most of those people started with mental or physical health issues and when they couldn't get treatment for them, they started to self-medicate.

In fact, the upper floors of the facility are only for those who are clean. And they're full.

[manwiches]

I find a good chunk of the posters on this thread are misinformed and ignorant to the situation.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by FireFly

In fact, the upper floors of the facility are only for those who are clean. And they're full.

I've volunteered there.

And that is exactly the problem.

You have a bunch of people who are clean, many who are former addicts, surrounded by addicts and dealers on their way in or out every day.

I would say that is far from an ideal situation for a recovering addict.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by manwiches

I find a good chunk of the posters on this thread are misinformed and ignorant to the situation.

Go on...

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by peter12

Central Memorial Park, for a brief time, was one of the most beautiful public spaces in the city. It is now rife with homeless gangs, and a drug dealers. The public building by the library is routinely broken into for use by prostitutes, and evidence of their liaisons strewn about the pavement afterwards. I do not like living with these people.

Originally Posted by strombad

Then move? You don't HAVE to live with "these people," but unfortunately they has just as much right to be there as you do. I don't very much people care about your delicate sensibilities on the matter.

This was the exchange I was referring to strombad. Peter was talking about the illegal activities that often, not always, occur alongside homeless addicts. I am not judging how prevalent these activities are in Central Memorial park, but your response to this was deal with it, they have they right to be there doing illegal activities. I disagree.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

This was the exchange I was referring to strombad. Peter was talking about the illegal activities that often, not always, occur alongside homeless addicts. I am not judging how prevalent these activities are in Central Memorial park, but your response to this was deal with it, they have they right to be there doing illegal activities. I disagree.

Well obviously, but as I said (and was clear in the original statement) my generalisation only works on the back of other generalisations. Of course my argument is invalid, but it is supported by other arguments which lack the requisite logical foundation necessary. Eliminate those arguments (the majority presented by peter12) and my own invalid arguments become equally unnecessary.

Homelessness, gang activity, and drug dealing are not intrinsically related. Lump them together illogically, and I will respond with an illogical proposition.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by strombad

Well obviously, but as I said (and was clear in the original statement) my generalisation only works on the back of other generalisations. Of course my argument is invalid, but it is supported by other arguments which lack the requisite logical foundation necessary. Eliminate those arguments (the majority presented by peter12) and my own invalid arguments become equally unnecessary.

Homelessness, gang activity, and drug dealing are not intrinsically related. Lump them together illogically, and I will respond with an illogical proposition.

How many "homeless" drug dealers could there possibly be? Does anyone know a dealer who is homeless? Last time I checked drugs were pretty profitable so they shuld be able to afford a place to live and a lexus with 20" rims.

The homeless are more likely to be users than dealers.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Fore those of you who are suggesting that they 'decentralize' the DI, I would suggest you volunteer at the DI for a day and ask them for some statistics. They actually operate a number of housing facilities, as well as a number of employment training facilities such as a woodshop, etc.

Are there people with addictions issues at the DI? Certainly. Most of those people started with mental or physical health issues and when they couldn't get treatment for them, they started to self-medicate.

In fact, the upper floors of the facility are only for those who are clean. And they're full.

Yep, just volunteered last month. What I'm proposing is that like the Mustard Seed, they build a building outside of the core for their "Level 1" intake floor, thereby freeing up more room for their level 2+ operations just like the woodshops and medical / counselling / retraining facilities.

Mustard seed vicinity cleaned up a whole bunch once they did that. The larger space available to them outside of the core meant for more available beds. Win-Win.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

How many "homeless" drug dealers could there possibly be? Does anyone know a dealer who is homeless? Last time I checked drugs were pretty profitable so they shuld be able to afford a place to live and a lexus with 20" rims.

The homeless are more likely to be users than dealers.

There are dealers who exist and sell enough only to support their own habits, I wouldn't think there would be many of them among the homeless though.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

How many "homeless" drug dealers could there possibly be? Does anyone know a dealer who is homeless? Last time I checked drugs were pretty profitable so they shuld be able to afford a place to live and a lexus with 20" rims.

The homeless are more likely to be users than dealers.

Nope, that's not how drug profits work. There's homeless dealers who support habits and also homeless dealers that are used by higher ups. They get paid like ****, but it's the only work they can find when they're homeless. There's lots of money being made in the drug world, but those street level dealers you see are at the bottom and being used for someone else's profit.

[mustache ride]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

You have a bunch of people who are clean, many who are former addicts, surrounded by addicts and dealers on their way in or out every day.

I'm curious how you know they're clean. Does the DI give drug tests? Is it an honor system or based on some kind of progress through a 12 step system? I'm curious about the drug test because I remember some state recently trying to tie drug test in with getting welfare.

[rubecube]

I'm not sure exactly how de-centralization would work. Drug dealers aren't stupid. It's not like they're just going to show up at the DIC and go "Oh no, where'd all my clients go? Well that's that, guess I'd better go apply at Home Depot."

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by troutman

Is it better or worse that they use these toilets or the bushes along the banks of the Bow River?

Didn't they raze all the wooded area between Fort Calgary and The LRT, along the river? That was a brilliant move by the city....

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Nope, that's not how drug profits work. There's homeless dealers who support habits and also homeless dealers that are used by higher ups. They get paid like ****, but it's the only work they can find when they're homeless. There's lots of money being made in the drug world, but those street level dealers you see are at the bottom and being used for someone else's profit.

You are 100% correct. When I first came to Calgary in 2006, I was homeless for a brief time, and resided on the 5th floor of the D.I. (reserved for people with jobs). When I took the LRT to work and back, I was approached to buy "food" dozens of times. I would observe users doing this all day, only to trade in the money they made for more drugs, usually by heading to a vehicle parked in an alley.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by irrevocable

Yeah I get the whole "there are good, decent, homeless folk" I do, believe me. I do, however, see a multitude of homeless on a daily basis.. regular interaction.. and to be quite clear: There are a MASSIVE amount of them abusing certain agencies. CUPS, home placement, etc. They don't change behavior patterns and continue to use street drugs and alcohol.

I'm sick of them.

Wow. Generalize much?

I had a drinking problem in my 20's, and hit rock bottom then moved to Calgary (tried the "geographic" solution...lol). When I finally decided to turn my life around, it took me about a year, but I was only in the D.I. for 2 1/2 months, and saved up for a place of my own, and CUPS helped me with the damage deposit.

I admit to still drinking on the odd occasion, but working 24 days in a clean work camp is no problem for me. In fact, when I found out I had a daughter, it was incentive enough to get clean, and provide support for her. People change. They just need the will, and the support of the community to do so.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Didn't they raze all the wooded area between Fort Calgary and The LRT, along the river? That was a brilliant move by the city....

Could be, I'm not sure. That wouldn't be good for erosion I imagine.