Trudeau draws the line for the Liberals on "pro-choice"

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

He's spoken to Alberta's business leaders at the Petroleum Club, and he supports increasing oilsands development and pipeline construction (including Keystone XL).

Uhhh...didn't you read CC's post? Trudeau doesn't have any positions.

[rubecube]

I think my favourite critique of any politician is the "flip-flop."

"Well see, he changed his mind. Clearly unfit to be leader. I much prefer my leaders to stubbornly forge ahead with every single idea they've ever had, no matter how antiquated or useless. Self-reflection and critical reassessment are for pussies."

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Uhhh...didn't you read CC's post? Trudeau doesn't have any positions.

Yeah, he also came out recently and parroted Obama on the Keystone pipeline and tried to link it to the Conservatives environmental policy. Not exactly a strong statement about the Keystone pipeline.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Conservative supporters, lets hear it, what are your substantive reasons for not voting for Trudeau. Which policies/positions do you disagree with? Why do you think Conservative policies would be better for you as a citizen.

Refrain from saying anything about JT's hair, looks, age, accomplishments.

First off, I'll say that I like what he's doing to rebuild a crumbled Liberal base. It makes sense. He's a good leader to rebuild that party.

However the idea of him as leader of our country scares the crap out of me. From his Ukraine/Russia hockey anger gaffe, to his stated desire to engage Iran in discussions, to his misconception of middle class wealth, he continues to display that he's at worst naive and at best not ready. Sure Harper is a dick who rules with an iron fist, but that's exactly who I want sitting across the table from a Putin.

The Harper conservatives have done a tremendous job of leading the economy through the last decade and establishing Canada as a burgeoning energy superpower, and those are at the top of my list. The previous Liberal regime certainly deserves a lot of credit for putting Canada on a footing to survive the economic meltdown, but that doesn't mean you can completely ignore the decade of good work by the Conservatives that followed.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I think my favourite critique of any politician is the "flip-flop."

"Well see, he changed his mind. Clearly unfit to be leader. I much prefer my leaders to stubbornly forge ahead with every single idea they've ever had, no matter how antiquated or useless. Self-reflection and critical reassessment are for pussies."

His flip flops are far more dramatic then your trying to brush them off at. And when he comes out and talks about any crucial issue he comes across as a guy who can't be bothered to actually understand them.

He's the king of empty statements and lack of preparation.

His flip flop on dope legalization was pretty dramatic from i'll never back up complete legalization to (OMG I can get the youth vote) i'm the king of burning one down with my friends, lets legalize it, yeah.

The guy is a stunning combination of outright lack of preparation, stupidity and laziness.

anyways, I've talked my points, I don't think either side is going to change the other sides minds. I could live with Mulcair as a Prime Minister over Trudeau, who I consider to be naive, lazy, un-inspired and dangerous.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah, he also came out recently and parroted Obama on the Keystone pipeline and tried to link it to the Conservatives environmental policy. Not exactly a strong statement about the Keystone pipeline.

Huh? He claimed that the Obama administration's opposition to it wasn't scientific but political. I don't necessarily agree with him but that still shows support for the pipeline itself.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Not exactly a strong statement about the Keystone pipeline.

"I’m actually supportive of the Keystone pipeline because it’s an extremely important energy infrastructure piece for both of our countries."
-Justin Trudeau, October 24, 2013

"I have been a strong promoter of the Keystone XL pipeline [...] I’m very much a proponent of Keystone XL."
-Justin Trudeau, January 22, 2014

[CaptainCrunch]

May 8th, after the state department in the U.S. stated that the environmental impact of the Keystone pipeline was negligible. the below is not a ringing endorsement of keystone or making a statement of support for the pipeline.




“The fact it hasn’t been approved yet is because this government has not done a credible job on demonstrating it is serious about climate change, and it is serious about protecting our environment,” Trudeau said.
“If this government had taken on its responsibilities towards the environment, Canadians and our trading partners wouldn’t be so doubtful of its capacity to protect our natural environment and wouldn’t have allowed what has happened, which is unfortunate, which is that the oilsands have become in the eyes of far too many a poster-child for climate change."

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

However the idea of him as leader of our country scares the crap out of me. From his Ukraine/Russia hockey anger gaffe, to his stated desire to engage Iran in discussions, to his misconception of middle class wealth, he continues to display that he's at worst naive and at best not ready. Sure Harper is a dick who rules with an iron fist, but that's exactly who I want sitting across the table from a Putin.

Again, not defending Trudeau, but holding Harper up as some kind of IR maven is ridiculous.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

May 8th, after the state department in the U.S. stated that the environmental impact of the Keystone pipeline was negligible. the below is not a ringing endorsement of keystone or making a statement of support for the pipeline.




“The fact it hasn’t been approved yet is because this government has not done a credible job on demonstrating it is serious about climate change, and it is serious about protecting our environment,” Trudeau said.
“If this government had taken on its responsibilities towards the environment, Canadians and our trading partners wouldn’t be so doubtful of its capacity to protect our natural environment and wouldn’t have allowed what has happened, which is unfortunate, which is that the oilsands have become in the eyes of far too many a poster-child for climate change."

He might be implicating the Conservatives a little too much in the equation, but what about that statement isn't true?

[MarchHare]

His flip flop on dope legalization was pretty dramatic from i'll never back up complete legalization to (OMG I can get the youth vote) i'm the king of burning one down with my friends, lets legalize it, yeah.

I'm neither a member of "the youth vote" (I'm in my mid-30s), nor am I a pot smoker, but this is one area where I agree with Trudeau 100%. The war on drugs (including the prohibition of marijuana) is bad government policy. Just this week, five Nobel Prize-winning economists called for the end off the war on drugs. Two US states have already legalized pot, and several more will likely follow shortly. This is a proposal whose time has come.

[Makarov]

Trudeau has subjected himself to quite a lot of criticism for his support of the Keystone pipeline (could he be, gasp, pandering to Alberta?):

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/adam-sh...b_4738349.html

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Again, not defending Trudeau, but holding Harper up as some kind of IR maven is ridiculous.

Ok. Let me rephrase for you.

When faced with a choice between Harper or Trudeau as the leader of our country, the idea of Trudeau scares the crap out of me and Harper is far and away who I would choose to be sitting across the table from a Putin

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

May 8th, after the state department in the U.S. stated that the environmental impact of the Keystone pipeline was negligible. the below is not a ringing endorsement of keystone or making a statement of support for the pipeline.




“The fact it hasn’t been approved yet is because this government has not done a credible job on demonstrating it is serious about climate change, and it is serious about protecting our environment,” Trudeau said.
“If this government had taken on its responsibilities towards the environment, Canadians and our trading partners wouldn’t be so doubtful of its capacity to protect our natural environment and wouldn’t have allowed what has happened, which is unfortunate, which is that the oilsands have become in the eyes of far too many a poster-child for climate change."

The context of this statement is that he's blaming The Harper Government for delaying the American approval of the pipeline. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine if that accusation has any merit, but he's not at all saying he doesn't support Keystone XL; rather, he's saying that if he were PM, he would have taken steps to obtain approval from the US State Department faster than what Harper has accomplished.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Trudeau has subjected himself to quite a lot of criticism for his support of the Keystone pipeline (could he be, gasp, pandering to Alberta?):

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/adam-sh...b_4738349.html

I do agree that he's started making overtures to Alberta and demonstrating consideration for this province as a critical part of Canada. Publically supporting Keystone, speaking to energy leaders at the Petroleum Club and touring the Oil Sands are evidence of this. I think it is great.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Ok. Let me rephrase for you.

When faced with a choice between Harper or Trudeau as the leader of our country, the idea of Trudeau scares the crap out of me and Harper is far and away who I would choose to be sitting across the table from a Putin

Putin's a bit of an extreme example, and I don't think it really matters who sits across from him. The guy is bonkers. I'm much more concerned with who is going to be negotiating foreign aid, trade agreements, diplomatic relations, international human rights, etc. These aren't areas the Harper government has particularly excelled at. And yes, I think they're areas Trudeau would struggle with as well at this point, but not in the alienating ways in which Harper has been accused of.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

The context of this statement is that he's blaming The Harper Government for delaying the American approval of the pipeline. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine if that accusation has any merit, but he's not at all saying he doesn't support Keystone XL; rather, he's saying that if he were PM, he would have taken steps to obtain approval from the US State Department faster than what Harper has accomplished.

As a party leader, who's first concern should be the economics of the thing. The message is simple, the State department has given their sign up, they've said that environmentally the impact of the Pipeline is negligible if not better then running fuels through rail, there's no reason not to approve it.

Trudeau''s statement as a party leader is one that shouldn't be made at this point, he's playing partisan politics with something of vast importance to this countries economy, and giving ammunition to American anti-keystone groups.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Trudeau''s statement as a party leader is one that shouldn't be made at this point, he's playing partisan politics with something of vast importance to this countries economy, and giving ammunition to American anti-keystone groups.

No, he's not. He's stating that these groups already have ammunition because of the failure of the Harper government to manage the image of the oilsands.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Putin's a bit of an extreme example, and I don't think it really matters who sits across from him. The guy is bonkers. I'm much more concerned with who is going to be negotiating foreign aid, trade agreements, diplomatic relations, international human rights, etc. These aren't areas the Harper government has particularly excelled at. And yes, I think they're areas Trudeau would struggle with as well at this point, but not in the alienating ways in which Harper has been accused of.

It think Harper has done a great job in terms of trade relations, overall I think he's been good on the human rights front, I would have liked to see the Harper government acting in a stronger way in terms of things like the imprisoned journalist in egypt. I have no trouble with the maintenance on International relations, and think that he's taken a good lead role in terms of Ukraine.

I'm happy with his stance on Iran.

I don't have many problems with his foreign policy at all.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

No, he's not. He's stating that these groups already have ammunition because of the failure of the Harper government to manage the image of the oilsands.

I disagree with you on this matter.