East Village toilets now closed

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Is this a decent development? It was beautiful last year with the colored fountains and the new restaurant owned by the River Cafe folks.

I found it progressively got worse through the late summer and into this spring.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by peter12

Decentralizing services tends to increase efficiency. Separating addicts from potential enablers is another benefit. Integrating homeless facilities into local economic and social opportunities outside of the homeless community.

Right now, the DIC dominates the east end of downtown, and I see no benefit.

ok, I will give you it might be more efficient to purchase or build smaller buildings on less prime real estate. How do you get them to these places though?

Which people are located downtown that are enabling these homeless people in some way that wouldn't also be located in separate faculties? It's not like the only liquor stores are located downtown, or the drug dealers chained to a bench on 7th Ave.

Which opportunities would be better for homeless people in a less central community? There wouldn't be a cash corner where you could go for some day labour work. There wouldn't be access to other facilities or services that they need, unless you are suggesting that non-profit groups like the Mustard Seed or CUPS have branch offices at each of these locations.

Originally Posted by peter12

Central Memorial Park, for a brief time, was one of the most beautiful public spaces in the city. It is now rife with homeless gangs, and a drug dealers. The public building by the library is routinely broken into for use by prostitutes, and evidence of their liaisons strewn about the pavement afterwards. I do not like living with these people.

Oh wait, now it comes out.

NIMBYism, such a shocker.

I don't like these people here so ship them to Forest Lawn and Bowness and The Foothills Industrial area, or Renfrew so I don't have to see them.

That way I won't get my $500 shoes dirty when one of them spits on the sidewalk.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by peter12

Central Memorial Park, for a brief time, was one of the most beautiful public spaces in the city. It is now rife with homeless gangs, and a drug dealers. The public building by the library is routinely broken into for use by prostitutes, and evidence of their liaisons strewn about the pavement afterwards. I do not like living with these people.

You have a curious definition of the word "rife."

Central Memorial Park is not "rife" with gangs or drug dealers, nor is the public building by the library (which you do not name, and so I can only presume that it is in reference to the public washrooms) routinely broken into.

Sure, it is an urban park, but it isn't the haven of illicit and criminal activity that you are suggesting either.

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Is this a decent development? It was beautiful last year with the colored fountains and the new restaurant owned by the River Cafe folks.

The park is still beautiful.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Is this a decent development? It was beautiful last year with the colored fountains and the new restaurant owned by the River Cafe folks.

I walk through the park quite frequently and see no such evidence of a homeless gang invasion or makeshift brothels, but maybe I am just missing the good stuff.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by peter12

This is unbelievably ridiculous and sentimental.

Tell me more. Tell me any good reason you have for not making any effort at all to live comfortably and happily with people in your area you find distasteful.

I'm starting to understand why you have the reputation of simply being a pseudointellectual.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by strombad

Tell me more. Tell me any good reason you have for not making any effort at all to live comfortably and happily with people in your area you find distasteful.

I'm starting to understand why you have the reputation of simply being a pseudointellectual.

Please be more specific as to which behaviour you think I should find acceptable, and which I shouldn't find acceptable.

[Bane]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

What we really need are some designated slum areas, like third world countries have.


Should I have made this post green?

We do...Edmonton

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I understand what you are suggesting, but what purpose does that serve?

Would it be cheaper to build and staff 5 locations that would house the same number of people as the DropIn center? Would there be a bigger benefit to the people who use it? Would it be easier to get to them? Would there be less drug users in these individual centers?

I don't buy the whole "Economy of Scale" argument with the massive DI we currently have.

Are you a warehouse for homeless people or are you trying to give a path out of that lifestyle for those that wish to take it?

I think their mandate is harm reduction, and boiling down to being a safe warm place to spend the night. I think making that your mission is failing the homeless population. You're basically saying, we'll keep you save and warm so you can face another day of hell and squalor.

Originally Posted by peter12

Decentralizing services tends to increase efficiency. Separating addicts from potential enablers is another benefit. Integrating homeless facilities into local economic and social opportunities outside of the homeless community.

Right now, the DIC dominates the east end of downtown, and I see no benefit.

I agree with the decentralization. I do think the majority of services still need to be in the core though, as you need to put them places they are accessible to the population they are trying to serve.

I think having transition housing integrated with strong neighborhoods is an important part of any system hoping to help people break the cycle of homelessness.

It sounds more and more like "housing first" is gaining traction in the city, and I'm all for it.

You need people in an environment where they are part of a community with examples of healthy, successful individuals. If you spend your days surrounded by junkies and dealers, it becomes normal to you. The DI and the area surrounding it is just a whole pile of "It's ok, this is normal" for the people requiring it's services.

There are a lot of really interesting studies on Housing First, but there looks to be a lot of promise as a component of services to help the homeless:

http://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&l...elters&f=false

[burn_this_city]

I can't help but laugh at the downtown nimbyism. The homeless were in that area long before your condo development. Same goes for the idiots in Inglewood whining about the train yard. Blaming the drop in center is simple obtuse, before it was around that was still a crack infested dump.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I can't help but laugh at the downtown nimbyism. The homeless were in that area long before your condo development. Same goes for the idiots in Inglewood whining about the train yard. Blaming the drop in center is simple obtuse, before it was around that was still a crack infested dump.

Yeah, the person I have regular contact who sits on the board for the Homeless Foundation probably has no idea about any of this stuff...

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I can't help but laugh at the downtown nimbyism. The homeless were in that area long before your condo development. Same goes for the idiots in Inglewood whining about the train yard. Blaming the drop in center is simple obtuse, before it was around that was still a crack infested dump.

So everyone should just accept homelessness as a normal thing? Why is it wrong that people want to improve their neighborhoods? Homelessness has been a growing issue in this city over the last decade...in fact it seems to have gotten much more prevalent every since the DI opened. Looking for better solutions will help everyone...especially the segment of the homeless that truly need and want help.

Personally, I think you need to integrate, not segregate. Place people into situations where they interact with regular society and surround them in a more positive environment, not house them like cattle. Surrounding them with hundreds of others in a crappy situation is not going to show anyone a better way forward...it just creates a ghetto situation where going down a dark path is easier than ever.

[Tyler]

I love how all the bleeding hearts seem to think all these homeless people are walking around mowing lawns and giving little old ladies directions in the EV. As someone who lives in Bridgeland and has to walk by the DIC, I agree with the zombie apocalypse comments.

What's so wrong with wanting to live in a place where you don't have to see drunk, cracked out people wandering around pissing in the street and yelling at bystanders at 2pm on a Wednesday? It seems to be some oddball, defeatist opinion of some that you should just HAVE to accept that. No you shouldn't.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Tyler

I love how all the bleeding hearts seem to think all these homeless people are walking around mowing lawns and giving little old ladies directions in the EV. As someone who lives in Bridgeland and has to walk by the DIC, I agree with the zombie apocalypse comments.

What's so wrong with wanting to live in a place where you don't have to see drunk, cracked out people wandering around pissing in the street and yelling at bystanders at 2pm on a Wednesday? It seems to be some oddball, defeatist opinion of some that you should just HAVE to accept that. No you shouldn't.

No one said they were model citizens who are 100% victims of circumstance. They just have an attitude that the homeless are still people, instead of dehumanizing the issue by referring to them as a 'zombie apocalypse' that you just want ring fenced out of your way.

What's going to happen is East Villege is going to be built and after all the hotels, condos, restaurants, pubs, et al are established there's going to be so many people around that the blight of the DIC and it's residents will not be the dominating feature of the whole east side anymore.

[Ryan Coke]

Yeah, we should just accept gangs, drug dealers and prostitutes, because 'they are part of the community'.

They absolutely need help, just like more violent criminals who also commonly have mental illnesses. But doesn't negate the fact that they are taking part in illegal activities that are not part of societal norms.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by peter12

Central Memorial Park, for a brief time, was one of the most beautiful public spaces in the city. It is now rife with homeless gangs, and a drug dealers. The public building by the library is routinely broken into for use by prostitutes, and evidence of their liaisons strewn about the pavement afterwards. I do not like living with these people.

Gangs?

I live in the beltline, walk, bike, and drive through Victoria Park (and the apparently treacherous Central Park) several times a week, and I've never seen a "gang".

You sound like a frightened old woman.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by Tyler

I love how all the bleeding hearts seem to think all these homeless people are walking around mowing lawns and giving little old ladies directions in the EV. As someone who lives in Bridgeland and has to walk by the DIC, I agree with the zombie apocalypse comments.

What's so wrong with wanting to live in a place where you don't have to see drunk, cracked out people wandering around pissing in the street and yelling at bystanders at 2pm on a Wednesday? It seems to be some oddball, defeatist opinion of some that you should just HAVE to accept that. No you shouldn't.

Did you move to Bridgeland before or after the Drop In Center was built?

[Redliner]

Originally Posted by strombad

Then move? You don't HAVE to live with "these people," but unfortunately they has just as much right to be there as you do. I don't very much people care about your delicate sensibilities on the matter.

Ever talked to the homeless in your community? Asked if they needed extra clothes, food, anything you can provide for them? Perhaps integrate yourself into THEIR community as a positive presence, rather than one who simply skulks by, cursing their very existence? It could honestly help your demeanour immensely.

That's a pretty oversimplified way of looking at things. Yes, they have the same "right" to public places as anyone else. They do not, however, have the "right" to conduct themselves in a lewd and unsanitary manner while in public, to harass others who exercise their own right to try and enjoy those same public spaces, or to be involved in illegal activities. Not complying with those conditions reduces - if not outright revokes - their "right" to be there. This statement applies to anyone, homeless or not. Obviously these behaviors are more prevalent among the homeless community, which unfortunately leads to our present conundrum.

Before you run for your flamethrower, yes, I get the whole concern with mental illness, yes, I understand that not all homeless people are fully responsible for their present circumstances, (although many are) and yes, I understand that it is a complex problem that isn't going to be fixed by a bunch of people bickering on an internet message board. I just find it a little ridiculous that people are willing to accept the problem as part of the landscape and start projecting blame onto others who have simply had enough of the situation.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Did you move to Bridgeland before or after the Drop In Center was built?

I moved after it was built and was aware that it was be there.

But that doesn't mean that I think the area should forever remain a lawless homeless purgatory on the East side of downtown forever. I want that area developed and to feel safe walking through it at all hours of the day

[I-Hate-Hulse]

As I understand it, the transfer of Emergency Services at the Mustard seed to a SE industrial park with residents being bused in has been cautiously successful - has cleaned up the area around the MS... The lower land costs allow for a larger facility, and even some employment opportunities.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...-open-1.809139

Why not do the same with the DI? Build something out in the burbs, and turn the DI into more counselling and retraining space. How about Airdrie?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Tyler

I moved after it was built and was aware that it was be there.

But that doesn't mean that I think the area should forever remain a lawless homeless purgatory on the East side of downtown forever. I want that area developed and to feel safe walking through it at all hours of the day

I no longer live in Calgary, but when I did I lived all over the city, Core, beltline, suburbs.

I can honeslty say I have never, ever felt unsafe walking anywhere in Calgary