Toll Roads in Calgary within a decade

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/toll-roads...ears-1.1808801







I heard this on the radio this morning and with how passionate CP is on the topic of driving/traffic I was surprised there wasn't a thread on this.

First off, commute times have decreased by 20% from 2004 to 2012 in Calgary?!?!?! I'd like to see some data to back that up.

Considering in early 2004 Deerfoot trail had 2 (or 3) sets of lights on it still and had been under construction for a couple years to start getting those lights turned into interchanges, I am not at all surprised by that stat.

Unless I am mistaken, the Douglasdale/24St interchange was the last one and it finished in 2005.

[Senator Clay Davis]

So we, the taxpayers, pay for the roads, and the government, the asshats, decide we should get charged to use the roads we paid for? And this idea is supported by Preston Manning's right wing think tank? Hmmmm....

[Bunk]

Bell's article on this talked about the GM of Transportation's notion that road pricing would very unlikely be traditional toll booth type set ups. That new technology, perhaps something embedded in the vehicle's license plate would track when and where someone is driving. It would be a more general road user fee system. Certain times could then be more expensive, certain roadways could be cheaper or more expensive, etc. At the end of each month or year, you're charged based on the usage.

Nonetheless, although the Transportation GM sees it as "inevitable" - it was actually the Manning Centre that proposed it - there is no City proposal at any stage of development at this point.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

So we, the taxpayers, pay for the roads, and the government, the asshats, decide we should get charged to use the roads we paid for? ....

So we, the taxpayers, pay for the transit lines, and the government, the asshats, decide we should get charged to use the transit we paid for? ....

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Bell's article on this talked about the GM of Transportation's notion that road pricing would very unlikely be traditional toll booth type set ups. That new technology, perhaps something embedded in the vehicle's license plate would track when and where someone is driving. It would be a more general road user fee system. Certain times could then be more expensive, certain roadways could be cheaper or more expensive, etc. At the end of each month or year, you're charged based on the usage.

Nonetheless, although the Transportation GM sees it as "inevitable" - it was actually the Manning Centre that proposed it - there is no City proposal at any stage of development at this point.

That's actually a pretty cool idea. Why should I pay more for road usage when I live inner city and drive half as much? This would also help balance the suburban road usage. And for the out-of-towners, it kicks in when they enter Calgary city limits.

Additionally, you could charge a premium during commute times, and you could charge a minimum for off-hours driving.

That said, you'd have to have some pretty accurate technology and a sophisticated road detection system to make this work. You'd also have to be able to hand down some stiff fines for tampering with the system. What if your vehicle gets stolen and the perp racks up 100k worth of driving before its reported and registered with the police?

Love the direction of this though!

[Bill Bumface]

This all still just feels like a more complicated version of a gas tax...

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That said, you'd have to have some pretty accurate technology and a sophisticated road detection system to make this work. You'd also have to be able to hand down some stiff fines for tampering with the system. What if your vehicle gets stolen and the perp racks up 100k worth of driving before its reported and registered with the police?

Love the direction of this though!

Technically, a tracking system could serve the dual purpose of not only managing the pay-as-you-go fee system, but also as a police tracking system for stolen vehicles. I highly doubt perps would be driving those vehicles anywhere if that was the case.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Or encourage people to use public transit.

You can't divert people onto transit if transit doesn't have the capacity to carry them.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That's actually a pretty cool idea. Why should I pay more for road usage when I live inner city and drive half as much? This would also help balance the suburban road usage. And for the out-of-towners, it kicks in when they enter Calgary city limits.

Additionally, you could charge a premium during commute times, and you could charge a minimum for off-hours driving.

That said, you'd have to have some pretty accurate technology and a sophisticated road detection system to make this work. You'd also have to be able to hand down some stiff fines for tampering with the system. What if your vehicle gets stolen and the perp racks up 100k worth of driving before its reported and registered with the police?

Love the direction of this though!

I agree! I live inner city and I also don't have children. So give me back all of my taxes that go to education as well. I'm not planning on having children. Parents should fund the majority of education.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

This all still just feels like a more complicated version of a gas tax...

Don't know if that makes is worse or not though.

If it convinces some people to drive to work an hour before rush hour so they pay half price tolls, it could have some merit.

[Phaneufenstein]

I'm ok with a toll lane.

But the toll stretch needs to be extended by one more lane, otherwise this would be a major WTF for me.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Considering in early 2004 Deerfoot trail had 2 (or 3) sets of lights on it still and had been under construction for a couple years to start getting those lights turned into interchanges, I am not at all surprised by that stat.

Unless I am mistaken, the Douglasdale/24St interchange was the last one and it finished in 2005.

I remember moving here in 1996 and my mind being blown because the city's major highway had traffic lights on it. It just had "design flaw" written all over it.

[#-3]

I like Salt Lake City. They have express lanes, that are HOV or Toll. If you are alone in your vehicle you can only use the lane when there is a tag up in your windshield. Cameras take a picture of the tag, and you get a monthly bill. If you have more than one person in the car you can use the lanes for free, no tag in the window. Price can be adjusted and posted on the board, for different days and times.

They are also set up like express lanes, so for a Calgary example

Deerfoot heading north,
If you got in the lane just after barlow, you would not be able to enter/exit until after Southland.
probably another one after Glenmore, until you pass the 17th off ramp.
Another from after memorial to before Mcknight

It creates congestion points at the Barlow, Glenmore and Memorial Interchanges, and Mcknight. Those four Interchanges would need major upgrades to the ramps. But the rest of the interchanges could largely be left alone.

[darklord700]

I don't understand the point of these kind of studies. The technology has been made available for decades, of course, you can use it in Calgary if you so choose. And of course if you charge per use, the demand will drop comparing to free for all. A three year old could come up with this thing, what's the big secret?

It's like saying we should double the tax on alcohol to reduce alcohol consumption. Of course it will and I dont' need no study to tell me that.

[Hevishot]

I would be ok with a toll road and I live out of the city. Aslong as we can get transponders like they have in Ontario and do not have to stop and put money in a booth. Its the cost of driving you either get the transponder or you sit in traffic the choice is yours.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Bell's article on this talked about the GM of Transportation's notion that road pricing would very unlikely be traditional toll booth type set ups. That new technology, perhaps something embedded in the vehicle's license plate would track when and where someone is driving. It would be a more general road user fee system. Certain times could then be more expensive, certain roadways could be cheaper or more expensive, etc. At the end of each month or year, you're charged based on the usage.

Nonetheless, although the Transportation GM sees it as "inevitable" - it was actually the Manning Centre that proposed it - there is no City proposal at any stage of development at this point.

The government tracking the location of every vehicle seems pretty big brother to me. I really don't see how this is better than charging a higher gas tax. (Unless maybe congestion based pricing is implemented).

[Dion]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I assume one would have to show their driver's license. You could give a home town discount to those from Calgary, and really stick it to those that live in the parasite communities.

Stick it to me all you want. It would give me more reason not to travel to Calgary. Other than medical appointments and seeing the odd movie on the weekened I avoid Calgary as much as possible

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Dion

Stick it to me all you want. It would give me more reason not to travel to Calgary. Other than medical appointments and seeing the odd movie on the weekened I avoid Calgary as much as possible

We know. You point that fact out at every, single, possible chance you get.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

So would the province get the money? It would be weird for the roads the city doesn't build or maintain to be a new tax source for the city administration.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

The government tracking the location of every vehicle seems pretty big brother to me. I really don't see how this is better than charging a higher gas tax. (Unless maybe congestion based pricing is implemented).

Its density based pricing rather than a flat rate. Work 5 to 3 and you dont pay any tolls, work outside of the main arteries, you dont pay any tolls, car pool, you dont pay any tolls. Drive 20k on deerfoot each day at 7:30 and 5:00 with only you in the vehicle, you get to pay for your increades impact.

It allows us to target those with the highest impact on traffic flow during rush hour rather than the guy who goes to the mountains on the weekend.