Reviews for Teachers?

[Prufrock]

Originally Posted by peter12

Standardization of mediocrity. I am told that the two year education program contains virtually no further specialization of craft, but instead a lot of pop psychology and learning strategies. Teachers are being created to read curriculum to their students. They are, in effect, mouthpieces for the education bureaucracy. There is no room for difference or creativity in a public education system.

I just finished my 2 year education degree at the UofC. My convocation is in June and I've already applied to the school boards and I'm waiting to hear back. I received my English degree beforehand (there is a "combined" degree that takes you 5 years to get both). So as someone who has just gone through this...

The program itself is lacking, and you're right, a lot of it is pop psychology and learning strategies. It's a bit wishy-washy at times, but there are really strong aspects as well. There are solid courses on specialization, assessment, diversity, interdisciplinary work, etc. Do I feel more prepared to teach now than I did 2 years ago? Absolutely. Further, it's true, imo, that the standards to get in are quite low (2.5 gpa, much less than what I needed for my honours program) and the amount of people in the program I'm sure breeds some mediocrity.

But, to say that teachers are being created as mouthpieces and there is no room for difference or creativity is a silly, sweeping generalization. Maybe I'm just in the honeymoon phase with my new profession, but I've been blown away with the quality of work done by my peers and myself. It feels quite good to go out for my practicum, to share a classroom with a teacher who has been teaching for 15+ years, and to have her say that my unit plan is "brilliant" (strong words in my opinion haha) and that she wants all my material so she can teach it next year. I've heard this type story from multiple peers as well. There is a sense that many are always trying to find new and different ways to teach old material. And why not? Believe me, you think learning about something boring like Confederation is crappy? Try teaching it. It's just as bad for the teachers (sorry to pick on confederation). Anyway, I just wanted to share that I feel quite differently, that there is room in the classroom for difference and creativity.

I'm excited to become a teacher. I know it will be very difficult and very exhausting, that I will be overworked and under appreciated, but I'm excited to finally start, after 6 years of university, working in a profession that I am truly passionate about. Now if only the CBE would call me and I could get a job haha...

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Prufrock

But, to say that teachers are being created as mouthpieces and there is no room for difference or creativity is a silly, sweeping generalization. Maybe I'm just in the honeymoon phase with my new profession, but I've been blown away with the quality of work done by my peers and myself. It feels quite good to go out for my practicum, to share a classroom with a teacher who has been teaching for 15+ years, and to have her say that my unit plan is "brilliant" (strong words in my opinion haha) and that she wants all my material so she can teach it next year. I've heard this type story from multiple peers as well. There is a sense that many are always trying to find new and different ways to teach old material. And why not? Believe me, you think learning about something boring like Confederation is crappy? Try teaching it. It's just as bad for the teachers (sorry to pick on confederation). Anyway, I just wanted to share that I feel quite differently, that there is room in the classroom for difference and creativity.

..

Do you know how the teachers that take on Student teacher are picked? Is it volunteer or are the asked?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Prufrock

I just finished my 2 year education degree at the UofC. My convocation is in June and I've already applied to the school boards and I'm waiting to hear back. I received my English degree beforehand (there is a "combined" degree that takes you 5 years to get both). So as someone who has just gone through this...

The program itself is lacking, and you're right, a lot of it is pop psychology and learning strategies. It's a bit wishy-washy at times, but there are really strong aspects as well. There are solid courses on specialization, assessment, diversity, interdisciplinary work, etc. Do I feel more prepared to teach now than I did 2 years ago? Absolutely. Further, it's true, imo, that the standards to get in are quite low (2.5 gpa, much less than what I needed for my honours program) and the amount of people in the program I'm sure breeds some mediocrity.

But, to say that teachers are being created as mouthpieces and there is no room for difference or creativity is a silly, sweeping generalization. Maybe I'm just in the honeymoon phase with my new profession, but I've been blown away with the quality of work done by my peers and myself. It feels quite good to go out for my practicum, to share a classroom with a teacher who has been teaching for 15+ years, and to have her say that my unit plan is "brilliant" (strong words in my opinion haha) and that she wants all my material so she can teach it next year. I've heard this type story from multiple peers as well. There is a sense that many are always trying to find new and different ways to teach old material. And why not? Believe me, you think learning about something boring like Confederation is crappy? Try teaching it. It's just as bad for the teachers (sorry to pick on confederation). Anyway, I just wanted to share that I feel quite differently, that there is room in the classroom for difference and creativity.

I'm excited to become a teacher. I know it will be very difficult and very exhausting, that I will be overworked and under appreciated, but I'm excited to finally start, after 6 years of university, working in a profession that I am truly passionate about. Now if only the CBE would call me and I could get a job haha...

A 2.5 GPA... I wonder how many of your cohorts had honours.

[Daradon]

It's a good idea in theory and has been talked about for quite a while now, but as Undercover thought, the implication would be impossible and just end up being damaging.

Teachers have to fight too much right now against so many forces, including, most often, terrible parents. Parents who don't believe their recommendations, parents who think the teacher is picking on poor Billy or Suzy, parents who don't parent and the kid shows up hungry, poorly clothed, and angry.

While this will begin focusing on the teacher, and have some good points to it, it will end up focusing on the students and their progress, and teachers will get unfairly penalized for bad students and bad situations.

I would also agree with those that say it's another unfair expectation for teachers to put up with that we don't put on other professionals. If we really want to go down this road, and teachers really do have one of the more important jobs out there, than we need to treat them as such and pay them as such. Pay them like teachers in Norway, then you can expect all these things from them.

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by peter12

I went to school for 6 years in far more competitive, and difficult programs. I had to compete in a pretty brutal job market for a decent job that I could lose in a second if I receive a negative performance review.

And what is your compensation? Would you say you have never seen someone in that position anywhere who is no "good" or should be trained further or removed? There are policies in place for teacher reviews, but with the cuts to education there is no time to do them. Most teachers are reviewed once or twice a year in the beginning of their career and that may be it for their remaining time. However, we are all evaluating ourselves daily, as our our students. If you are not good at this job it is very trying and exhausting to keep control over 40+ kids at any given time. Trust me teachers who are incompetent are usually out of the career by choice in five years.

That being said see my previous post I agree that more reviews are necessary and the policies exist. It is simply to time consuming in comparison to the expectations on administration currently. What this panel suggests is a "witch hunt" designed to support their new policies and use scare tactics. It will be a blow to education that will reduce new ideas, push good teachers out of the profession and limit the educational options of your children.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

And what is your compensation? Would you say you have never seen someone in that position anywhere who is no "good" or should be trained further or removed? There are policies in place for teacher reviews, but with the cuts to education there is no time to do them. Most teachers are reviewed once or twice a year in the beginning of their career and that may be it for their remaining time. However, we are all evaluating ourselves daily, as our our students. If you are not good at this job it is very trying and exhausting to keep control over 40+ kids at any given time. Trust me teachers who are incompetent are usually out of the career by choice in five years.

That being said see my previous post I agree that more reviews are necessary and the policies exist. It is simply to time consuming in comparison to the expectations on administration currently. What this panel suggests is a "witch hunt" designed to support their new policies and use scare tactics. It will be a blow to education that will reduce new ideas, push good teachers out of the profession and limit the educational options of your children.

My compensation is commensurate with my education and experience. I also work 84 hour weeks from May to October.

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by peter12

A 2.5 GPA... I wonder how many of your cohorts had honours.

If it is simply a numbers game Peter I'll throw down any day. I worked as an analytical chemist for a while before I started teaching. I was the valedictorian for my Universities graduating class, and yes Analytical Chem is competitive.

I am sorry you obviously had a bad experience with a bad teacher to have so much anger, but to call out another individual in regards to their University grades?? What are you really trying to accomplish?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Teachers have to fight too much right now against so many forces, including, most often, terrible parents. Parents who don't believe their recommendations, parents who think the teacher is picking on poor Billy or Suzy, parents who don't parent and the kid shows up hungry, poorly clothed, and angry.

.

Sorry Daradon, not trying to cherry pick, but is this true? Are teachers faced with more terrible parents? I would be interested in hearing from some of the teachers on this board on that point. I would be interested to know if their experience with parents has changed over the years.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

If it is simply a numbers game Peter I'll throw down any day. I worked as an analytical chemist for a while before I started teaching. I was the valedictorian for my Universities graduating class, and yes Analytical Chem is competitive.

I am sorry you obviously had a bad experience with a bad teacher to have so much anger, but to call out another individual in regards to their University grades?? What are you really trying to accomplish?

My point is that you are obviously the exception to the rule.

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Sorry Daradon, not trying to cherry pick, but is this true? Are teachers faced with more terrible parents? I would be interested in hearing from some of the teachers on this board on that point. I would be interested to know if their experience with parents has changed over the years.

I don't think there are more or less "bad" parents or "good parents" but the change revolves around the accountability. Parents often come in swinging whenever a child is doing poorly or is disciplined, and I always say I will worry the day a parent does come in swinging for their child. Everytime after we discuss the instance we come to understand it and develop a plan for their child.

The problem in my opinion lies with the "good" parents as much as the "bad" parents. It is the entitled view that their kid has. It comes form not failing or having any expectations for them until grade 10. It has to do with parents overly involved in the students grades, and assessment. A lackk of trust in teachers in general. The main problem I find is that teachers are blamed for unsuccessful students and very little of that responsibility lies with the student. This is not just a problem in education, but to a greater extent our western social condition.

Again, just my 2 cents.

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by peter12

My point is that you are obviously the exception to the rule.

I disagree, there are a number of teachers in the same position. I literally work with a guy who was a "rocket scientist" kind of hilarious. He decided to teach and found his calling, leaving a very lucrative career.

The exceptions are the "bad" teachers. They are out there and the process to help them improve or move on needs work. However, a witch hunt is not the answer.

Also at 84 hours a week, I feel for you. I don't do those hours regularly but I have and it is hard and often, I found, under appreciated.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Sorry Daradon, not trying to cherry pick, but is this true? Are teachers faced with more terrible parents? I would be interested in hearing from some of the teachers on this board on that point. I would be interested to know if their experience with parents has changed over the years.

Erm, that's not exactly what I meant, that it was getting worse, guess I wrote it a bit funny, I can see how it would look like I meant that.

Absolutely parenting is probably getting better (slowly) as we age as a society. However, the way parents deal with teachers is completely different cause our society is different in that regard. It used to be the parents believed the teachers whenever the kid did something wrong. Billy got the strap? He probably deserved it! Of course, I'm not defending that system, that was ripe for abuse, and corporal punishment is bad.

Now however, teachers are near powerless to punish bad behavior and the few things they can do (take out of extra curricular activities, give a bad grade) often gets parents in an uproar. On top of that, you get parents who think they know better than the teachers, or feel they can do their job and there is little to no respect, and no help for the teacher in teaching their own child.

Don't even get me started on parents who want to challenge the curriculum. Luckily that's not as huge a problem here as it is in the States, but it still exists.

[kootenayguy9]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Do you know how the teachers that take on Student teacher are picked? Is it volunteer or are the asked?

I have had a student teacher in the past and it was volunteer. Got a cheque for $100 from U of C for having a student teacher.

[Derek Sutton]

My problem with this is that incompetent government officials are making this recomendation, wouldn't we all like to give them a review.

A review process for all teachers should be looked at as a good thing. The ATA over reacts to everything, and of course they respond with the ole'"we need more funding to do a better job" (via a union rep who was on global Tues morning). The union reaction alone justifies a true review process IMO. Maybe the province should have sugar coated it a little and used the term development plan.

Peer to peer evaluations are proven to be effective, honest and educational and are used in all profesions. I would like to think that an evaluation is a much better process for teacher preformance review then class scores or how their grade preforms on achievement tests. Reviews should be done to determine and identlfy who would need further or different training and who is doing a great job, not to revoke teaching licences.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by kootenayguy9

I have had a student teacher in the past and it was volunteer. Got a cheque for $100 from U of C for having a student teacher.

Tried to thank your post, but can't


Thanks.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by peter12

Standardization of mediocrity. I am told that the two year education program contains virtually no further specialization of craft, but instead a lot of pop psychology and learning strategies. Teachers are being created to read curriculum to their students. They are, in effect, mouthpieces for the education bureaucracy. There is no room for difference or creativity in a public education system.

You make it sound like Teachers only spend 2 years in post secondary education and that is a misrepresentation.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by peter12

My compensation is commensurate with my education and experience. I also work 84 hour weeks from May to October.

Please enlighten us as to your profession so that we, with little to no firsthand experience with it, can decide whether you should continue to be allowed to be employed in that field.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Please enlighten us as to your profession so that we, with little to no firsthand experience with it, can decide whether you should continue to be allowed to be employed in that field.

Socio-economic assessment planner for a pipeline company. My employer makes that decision, thanks.

[rotten42]

My objection is more to the blanket coverage the union provides to all its members. (behavior rather than certification) There are some obviously bad teachers out there that are almost untouchable. When a union protects its workers in spite of incompetence then it just serves the lowest common denominator.

I just had my daughter change schools because of an incident where a teacher was way out of line and borderline sexual harassment. The school’s response was to ignore it happened and then to make life tougher for my daughter. My ex works in Child protection services and did some digging on the dirtbag. It turns out that there have been multiple complaints about the guy but all that ends up happening is he switches schools.

[GP_Matt]

I think most professions are moving towards some sort of competency audits. I have my work audited every few years. It is a bit of an inconvenience but not terrible and we usually get decent feedback and suggestions at the end of it. The results of the audit dictate whether or not you get a follow up in depth audit or go to the back of the list for the next round of audits.

We also have mandatory continuing professional development, as do most professions.

I am not sure that Teachers are considered professionals though. (in the legal sense)