Stab someone 11 times, self defence: Welcome to Canada

[puckluck2]

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/05/06...ged-girlfriend

In what he described as “game” playing by her, he said out of frustration he handed her a large butcher knife and told her to go ahead and commit suicide.

Instead, she pushed the weapon, which was handed to her handle first, into his stomach.

Pelaez, 30, then took the knife from her and stabbed her 11 times, including once in the neck and twice in the back.



The good old Canadian justice system at its finest once again. I guess the first time he stabbed her, when he had full control of the knife, was not enough for him to not feel safe so he had to stab her 10 more times.

The only thing Canada should follow America on is their justice system. This scumbag wouldn't see the light of day for 25 years if he was in the States. But in Canada he'll be out in 3 years with the time he's served.

[polak]

I dunno. She did stab him....

[nik-]

If there's any justice system we want to emulate, it's the American justice system.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

In fairness the article doesn't go into what the findings of fact actually were.

The jury found him guilty of manslaughter, but there's no speculation as to how they came to that determination. It's not fair for us to speculate what that may have been without all the facts.

According to this article (again it's not nearly all the facts) http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/02/19...d-her-to-death it sounds like his girlfriend was very abusive. Again, I'm not defending the guy, I have no idea what all the facts are.

All I'm saying is we can't simply jump to a conclusion that the legal system is broken because of an article in a newspaper with zero context, especially when a jury of 12 people (6 men, 6 women) found him guilty of the lesser charge.

The sentence has to reflect manslaughter. A judge can't sentence someone to prison time for first degree murder when the guilty verdict is for something else, that would truly be a broken system.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

The only thing Canada should follow America on is their justice system. This scumbag wouldn't see the light of day for 25 years if he was in the States. But in Canada he'll be out in 3 years with the time he's served.

Unless he shot her...

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

In fairness the article doesn't go into what the findings of fact actually were.

Wait, are you suggesting that a news organization with such a sterling reputation as the Sun would deliberately manipulate and sensationalize a story to illicit strong, irrational, emotional responses?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Wait, are you suggesting that a news organization with such a sterling reputation as the Sun would deliberately manipulate and sensationalize a story to illicit strong, irrational, emotional responses?

Again with the Avatar..........

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Wait, are you suggesting that a news organization with such a sterling reputation as the Sun would deliberately manipulate and sensationalize a story to illicit strong, irrational, emotional responses?

Hope this helps you comprehend what happened.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Ok...981/story.html

This scumbag is a lying POS and should be deported the minute he gets out of jail.

[Barbecue]

Originally Posted by polak

I dunno. She did stab him....

I'm not the investigator, but it sounded like He handed her a knife handle first and she push it away. Which happened to be in the direction of his stomach

it's not like she took the weapon out of his hands and stabbed him

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Hope this helps you comprehend what happened.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Ok...981/story.html

This scumbag is a lying POS and should be deported the minute he gets out of jail.

From the article:

Pelaez was on trial for second-degree murder in the April 2012 death of Enrique in the Okotoks apartment the couple shared, but the jury found him guilty last month of the lesser included offence.

I don't really know why you're criticizing the justice system. This was a jury's decision, which is pretty much exactly how the U.S. system works as well.

[Jason14h]

If someone stabbed me in the stomach I might stab them multiple times in a fit or rage before stopping.

It is clearly a manslaughter case. And one in which he was stabbed FIRST.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/05/06...ged-girlfriend

In what he described as “game” playing by her, he said out of frustration he handed her a large butcher knife and told her to go ahead and commit suicide.

Instead, she pushed the weapon, which was handed to her handle first, into his stomach.

Pelaez, 30, then took the knife from her and stabbed her 11 times, including once in the neck and twice in the back.



The good old Canadian justice system at its finest once again. I guess the first time he stabbed her, when he had full control of the knife, was not enough for him to not feel safe so he had to stab her 10 more times.

The only thing Canada should follow America on is their justice system. This scumbag wouldn't see the light of day for 25 years if he was in the States. But in Canada he'll be out in 3 years with the time he's served.

American Justice System:

1. Multiple instances of convicts being exhonerated with DNA testing. Points to a corrupt at worst or inadequate at best trial process.

2. Notoriously lighthanded on sexual crimes and crimes against children.

3. Notoriously heavy handed on drug crimes.

4. No uniform sentencing standards. What gets you life in one state might get you 20 years in another.

5. Correctional system is overwhelmingly punitive in nature with little offered in the way of rehabilitation (though this is improving).

I'm sure others can come up with many more reasons why our justice system ain't all your making it out to be.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by rubecube

From the article:



I don't really know why you're criticizing the justice system. This was a jury's decision, which is pretty much exactly how the U.S. system works as well.

I have no problem with the jury. They have to follow Canadian laws and instructions from the judge.

My problem is this scumbag will be out in 35 months maximum. He stabbed this lady 11 times. I would have been on his side if he stabbed her once, which all it would have taken when he had the knife in his hand and she was then unarmed, but the stabbing was brutal. Stabbed her in the neck and in the back twice as well as 8 other times. That is murder and should be murder under any judicial system.

Even under his current manslaughter conviction 6 years is way too short.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

If someone stabbed me in the stomach I might stab them multiple times in a fit or rage before stopping.

It is clearly a manslaughter case. And one in which he was stabbed FIRST.

We have the word of a guy who stabbed someone 11 times and the word of a dead lady.

[Daradon]

Generally self defense cases in Canada are harder to prove than the states so I don't get the comparison.

We don't have a lot of the facts here.

Regardless it's just more hyperbolic rabble from the pro punishment side. Our justice system works very good as a whole, and easily far better than the States. You're always going to find a weird case or a case that feels like they got it wrong or could have had more punishment, but it has nothing to to with 'Canada' or anything like that. There are cases like that everywhere.

[Jason14h]

We have the word of a guy who stabbed someone 11 times and the word of a dead lady.

Well I'm going off the evidence, which is what the jury did as well, unlike you who is apparently assuming he is lying based on no facts.

The EVIDENCE/Article states she stabbed him first.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

We have the word of a guy who stabbed someone 11 times and the word of a dead lady.

You're obsessing over this particular aspect. Does this matter in the scheme of things? Would it be easier to accept if he passed her a gun, she shot him, and he wrestled it back and shot and killed her? Or if the genders were reversed?

When it has to do with weapons like knives or guns, the strength of the person, or lack thereof doesn't matter much.

I am sure the police were able to determine who got stabbed first from the blood spatter or layering of blood on whatever surfaces.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Are you making the argument because it's a dead woman PL2?

If anyone stabs me I'll return the favor 1000 times if I had the time and enough blood left. An individuals sex doesn't matter. A person just stabbed you and you are going to die because of it (Naturally, this is just the immediate response). How can one be expected restrain themselves in this situation?

American Justice system, privatize, profit and you.

[Parallex]

I dunno, given the facts as presented in the two stories it sounds to me like the jury got it right. She stabbed him, he excessively retaliated, then he called emergency services and attempted CPR... that sounds consistent with a finding of voluntary manslaughter to me.

My problem is this scumbag will be out in 35 months maximum.

He's been in jail for the past two years while the legal process worked itself out so saying "out in 35 months maximum" is a bit misleading, it's 24 months plus a maximum 35 additional months.

Originally Posted by puckluck2

The only thing Canada should follow America on is their justice system. This scumbag wouldn't see the light of day for 25 years if he was in the States.

Penalties in the United States vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. For example, had this been in California he would have received a sentence of 3, 6, or 11 years. Given the facts as presented I think the sentence he got was probably comparable to what he would have gotten in many parts of the states.

[Nehkara]

First of all, from everything I've ever heard it is much easier to claim self defense in the US than in Canada.

Secondly, everything seems to indicate that he was stabbed with a deadly weapon and responded by killing the person who stabbed him.

He went overboard, so it is still manslaughter but I'm okay with not convicting him of murder given that she stabbed him first.

Serious question here puckluck, how would you respond if someone stabbed you?