[Rumour] Tallon Actively Shopping 1st Overall Pick in 2014 Draft

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I agree that if Tallon was smart, he would trade down twice like you guys are saying.

Flames get Ekblad/Reinhart (CGY 1st overall)

Toronto gets the chance of drafting Bennett/Ekblad (TOR 4th overall)

FLA gets a great return from two teams + a top ten pick (FLA 8th overall).

Everybody wins.

If there was even a 10% chance Ekblad would be available at 4, would the Flames be trading up? And if the Flames trade up, is there more than a 5% chance Eckblad is available at 4?

Chicken and the egg I guess!

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

If there was even a 10% chance Ekblad would be available at 4, would the Flames be trading up? And if the Flames trade up, is there more than a 5% chance Eckblad is available at 4?

Chicken and the egg I guess!

100% chance of drafting Ekblad or Reinhart at #1.

EDIT: I see now.. Meant Draisaitl at #4

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

What about Backlund, Wideman (with some salary retained) + our two seconds for Florida's first?

Draft Ekblad at 1 and the best Centre available at 4.

No way that gets it done. Any trade involving Wideman as a main piece is not getting a first overall pick back. We have to retain salary just to dump him in my opinion. Backlund has never hit 20 goals or 40pts and at 25 he is not beinging back a top pick.

Backlund if traded is best to be moved in a deal where the flames take back a big contract for a team looking to create cap space

[saillias]

Looking at those past drafts it seems like the top defenseman falls to 4 quite often. Teams in the top 3 are either scared of another E. Johnson or the allure of a #1 center is too much for them to pass up. I think 4th is a good spot to be at... If I'm Treliving I maybe wait for Tallon to call me rather than bombarding him with offers.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

No way that gets it done. Any trade involving Wideman as a main piece is not getting a first overall pick back. We have to retain salary just to dump him in my opinion. Backlund has never hit 20 goals or 40pts and at 25 he is not beinging back a top pick.

Backlund if traded is best to be moved in a deal where the flames take back a big contract for a team looking to create cap space

I don't get it... Trade a young player at a reasonable salary (RFA) with upside who has had great possession stats for the last 2 years, for a big salary? I don't think that is the right move...

4th + Backlund would get it done, I just don't understand it from Calgary's perspective. 5 prospects in the top tier, why move our young #2 Center?

[PeteMoss]

A lot of people are very much over valuing what it would take to move from #4 to #1.

The reason why Tallon is looking to move the pick is because he feels he can get the best player in the draft at a lower position. If there was a Crosby/MacKinnon at the top of the draft they wouldn't trade the pick.

If you've got a group of 5 guys (or perhaps 6 in Tallon's case with Ehlers) who are all similarly regarded - its not going to take a fortune to move up. If Tallon can get a 2nd round pick in addition to the player he wanted all along - he'd be stupid not to take it.

It might be easier to understand if you assign grades to all players. Last year you might have MacKinnon at 95, Jones at 90, Barkov/Drouin at 85, Monahan/Lindholm at 80 so you'd have to pay decently to move up (i.e. the Flames offering 3 first round picks for the #1). This year you've got Reinhart/Ekblad/Bennett at 90, Drasaitl/Del Colle at 87. You aren't going to have to pay a similar price to move up.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

A lot of people are very much over valuing what it would take to move from #4 to #1.

The reason why Tallon is looking to move the pick is because he feels he can get the best player in the draft at a lower position. If there was a Crosby/MacKinnon at the top of the draft they wouldn't trade the pick.

If you've got a group of 5 guys (or perhaps 6 in Tallon's case with Ehlers) who are all similarly regarded - its not going to take a fortune to move up. If Tallon can get a 2nd round pick in addition to the player he wanted all along - he'd be stupid not to take it.

It might be easier to understand if you assign grades to all players. Last year you might have MacKinnon at 95, Jones at 90, Barkov/Drouin at 85, Monahan/Lindholm at 80 so you'd have to pay decently to move up (i.e. the Flames offering 3 first round picks for the #1). This year you've got Reinhart/Ekblad/Bennett at 90, Drasaitl/Del Colle at 87. You aren't going to have to pay a similar price to move up.

Not to nitpick but I think the grades were probably more like:
Mackinnon/Jones- 95
Drouin- 90
Barkov- 89
Monahan/Lindholm-85-87

Whereas this year:
Ekblad-88
Reinhart-86
Bennett-85
Draistl/Dal colle-83

From everything I have read Jones is the far superior defensive prospect to Ekblad, and was considered a better prospect then Mackinnon at draft day. However D men take longer to develop and Colorado wanted instant results, whereas Tampa and Florida just went through developing top D picks and it is slow and tedious (Hedman/Gudbranson)

[Bourque's Twin]

If I recall correctly, Hartley said Backlund was one of the best 2-way centres in the league. If I did recall correctly, I assume that he won't be moved, because Burke respects Hartley's opinion, and if Hartley feels that good about Backs I think Backs is safe.

I too think Backs is a fantastic 2-way centre. He's a 0.5 ppg player who is still young and just coming into his own. He's also a leader.

I don't want the Flames to trade down. Bennett, Reinhart, Draisaitl, or Dal Colle is fine with me.

[Igster]

If you can trade a vet or two and a second round pick, then go for it. I think the best of course would be to keep people like Backlund and the 4th overall. If you can somehow trade vets and keep the 4th and get the 1st, woot. Otherwise, just keep the 4th.

[Muta]

The only reason I proposed that Backlund trade is for four reasons:

• The Flames have Granlund, Reinhart and Knight all pushing for spots, and all whom could play center. One of these three could theoretically replace Backlund in this roster position; albeit, it would take them a while to develop to Backlund's level.
• You need to give up something of quality in order for Florida to bite, and that's exactly what Backlund is. He's still young, and really came into his own last season. He's still a good building block for Florida in the future.
• Historically, moving up and around the top five hasn't been TOO TOO expensive; sureloss posted a list of recent trades recently regarding this type of movement, and it's not really out of this world; picks are definitely moved, sometimes players (Fedotenko)... I think the value to move up isn't the monster people have continually built it up as.
• Given these reasons, that's why I wanted to include the 31st overall pick as well; Given his age / value / contract / recent production, Backlund's value is higher than a 2nd; that's where the difference comes in between the 4th and the 1st overall.

Anyways, just some food for thought. If we ended up keeping Backlund, I'd be very happy too.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Muta

The only reason I proposed that Backlund trade is for four reasons:

• The Flames have Granlund, Reinhart and Knight all pushing for spots, and all whom could play center. One of these three could theoretically replace Backlund in this roster position; albeit, it would take them a while to develop to Backlund's level.
• You need to give up something of quality in order for Florida to bite, and that's exactly what Backlund is. He's still young, and really came into his own last season. He's still a good building block for Florida in the future.
• Historically, moving up and around the top five hasn't been TOO TOO expensive; sureloss posted a list of recent trades recently regarding this type of movement, and it's not really out of this world; picks are definitely moved, sometimes players (Fedotenko)... I think the value to move up isn't the monster people have continually built it up as.
• Given these reasons, that's why I wanted to include the 31st overall pick as well; Given his age / value / contract / recent production, Backlund's value is higher than a 2nd; that's where the difference comes in between the 4th and the 1st overall.

Anyways, just some food for thought. If we ended up keeping Backlund, I'd be very happy too.

Yeah, there could be a log jam at centre coming up, especially since we'll probably pick one up this draft but if we're going to move anyone it should be Stajan. Backlund is at the right age to produce now and get better.

Giving up quality may be okay but giving up Backlund is over payment.

Giving up a second or equivalent with our first is fair to move up. If he wants much more, we don't do it.

Getting a 2nd back as well would be better but we probably won't see the player on the Flames for 3-5 years. There is a time when we should quit giving players away for future results. This would become a never ending story.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

A lot of people are very much over valuing what it would take to move from #4 to #1.

The reason why Tallon is looking to move the pick is because he feels he can get the best player in the draft at a lower position.

I disagree. The reason he's willing to move the pick is he wants help now. If he can get an asset that will help them win next season, he's willing to give up something (the difference between 1st and 5th or 8th) in the future. He's still rebuilding, so he wants a young asset that can help now, not a 29-year-old. But it sounds like the focus of the Panthers rebuild is 1-3 years, not 2-5.

[Jason14h]

A lot of people are very much over valuing what it would take to move from #4 to #1.

And you know this how? Everyone is purely speculating, we have no clue what Tallon's asking price may be.

The reason why Tallon is looking to move the pick is because he feels he can get the best player in the draft at a lower position

Or because he is hoping someone will offer him a player or player/pick combination that will help the Panthers more then the 1st overall pick alone!
That would be my bet

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I disagree. The reason he's willing to move the pick is he wants help now. If he can get an asset that will help them win next season, he's willing to give up something (the difference between 1st and 5th or 8th) in the future. He's still rebuilding, so he wants a young asset that can help now, not a 29-year-old. But it sounds like the focus of the Panthers rebuild is 1-3 years, not 2-5.

It could be a little bit of both. He gets the player he wants and also gets an asset for a quicker rebuild.

[The Fonz]

I wonder if Granlund and our 4th could get it done.

I'd have no issue with that price.

[Fire]

If any trade involves the 4th overall pick I would pass. Doesn't make much sense to include that pick in a trade to move only 3 spots higher in this draft.

If the Flames plan on drafting a center in this draft and they think Granlund would do well at center in the NHL then trading Backlund in a deal for the 1st overall would be fine by me.

Backlund + Hudler + Reinhart + 2nd round pick (Col) for 1st overall. Probably not intriguing enough for the Panthers to agree to it.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Fire

If any trade involves the 4th overall pick I would pass. Doesn't make much sense to include that pick in a trade to move only 3 spots higher in this draft.

Except that both Burke and Treliving have expressed their belief that "you build from the blueline out". We don't have that franchise dman, and so I can see them taking a run at Ekblad while we have the necessary assets (our 4th overall).

Ekblad doesn't fall to #4 like Jones.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Hard to imagine Ekblad getting past Edmo. Would be very interesting to see if Buff would move #2 for #4, if FLA passes on Ekblad (given their depth of D prospects). Still wouldn't add anything more than Col #2, however.

I like Ekblad, but still prefer to hold on to #4, take the remaining C and take our chances with some of the D in the second round. Looks to be some decent ones out of the US or perhaps one of the Hitmen combo of Sanheim/Thomas

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

And you know this how? Everyone is purely speculating, we have no clue what Tallon's asking price may be.

You can look at what the historical cost to move up in the top five of the Draft has been. Top five picks don't get traded very often, but when they do, the cost isn't usually very much beyond a slightly-lower first rounder.

If the quote in Elliot Friedman's post from yesterday is accurate (and there's no reason to believe it's not), we know exactly what Tallon's asking price is likely to be: A pick in the 2-10 range plus a "young player who can help".

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I wonder if Granlund and our 4th could get it done.

I'd have no issue with that price.

I doubt Florida would be interested. The problem with trading someone like Granlund right now is that his value isn't higher than his draft position was. However, he's shown to the Flames that he has a good chance of becoming an NHL player. Once he's proven himself at the NHL level, he begins to have more trade value.

With some prospects, you can trade high based on promise. To me Granlund is the opposite: he's probably better than teams around league think he is but he has yet to prove it.