How to build a duplex?

[Knalus]

I would suggest - Don't. Just don't. Duplexes are a horrible way of building. You get less than half the value of a detached home. People build duplexes when they cannot afford a real home. So, what happens when you want to sell? You will be selling a less than new, less than fancy property, that is also less than a whole house. People buy these new "luxury" duplexes because they want something fancy and new. What happens when it isn't fancy and new? Then you are selling to people who cannot afford a less than fancy house. I am convinced the resale on these things is going to be much, much worse than comparable detached properties in 10-20 years. When that time does come, you'll have to fix the place up in order to sell it. But - now the roof is a shared roof, gotta get the neighbors permission/buy in to fix it. Perhaps you want to do new siding - same deal. And likely, the neighbor has moved into a REAL house, and is renting the other side out. Now you are selling a rental property, not a proper house.

This type of building is a recipe for turning a neighborhood into crap in 15 years. Please, just don't.

[topfiverecords]

Hire a designer who can make the most of a 17' wide build and do 2 houses. I just bought a 1910 house of this size on a 25' lot and was willing to pay more to not be attached. I wasn't worried about an extra 4' of house width to guarantee I wasn't a conjoined twin where the other twin wants to be a country singer.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4260178.stm

[core_upt]

Originally Posted by Knalus

I would suggest - Don't. Just don't. Duplexes are a horrible way of building. You get less than half the value of a detached home. People build duplexes when they cannot afford a real home. So, what happens when you want to sell? You will be selling a less than new, less than fancy property, that is also less than a whole house. People buy these new "luxury" duplexes because they want something fancy and new. What happens when it isn't fancy and new? Then you are selling to people who cannot afford a less than fancy house. I am convinced the resale on these things is going to be much, much worse than comparable detached properties in 10-20 years. When that time does come, you'll have to fix the place up in order to sell it. But - now the roof is a shared roof, gotta get the neighbors permission/buy in to fix it. Perhaps you want to do new siding - same deal. And likely, the neighbor has moved into a REAL house, and is renting the other side out. Now you are selling a rental property, not a proper house.

This type of building is a recipe for turning a neighborhood into crap in 15 years. Please, just don't.

Obviously detached homes are worth more than semi-detached homes; however, they are more expensive to build as you do not have a 'half' to sell once it is complete.
Resale value is going to be weaker than detached homes, but the lower price point will make it more marketable.

Also, there is no such thing a "real" houses.... they are just different styles of housing. Semi-detached homes make desirable neighbourhoods affordable.

[core_upt]

When looking into builders, one thing to consider is their pricing structure. Some builders do cost + X%, others will do an upfront schedule.
Cost+ allows you to be in control of the budget, but you need to watch it very carefully. Things can escalate quickly and you do not know what the final cost is until you get there.
Some builders may you a price-per-square foot cost structure. This lets you know how much it will cost up front, but you need to make sure you understand exactly what you are getting (specification). Building cost-per-square-foot is kind of like buying a car by the pound - are you getting a Chevy or an Aston?
Fixed pricing gives you a solid idea of what this is going to cost you - you have a contract in place with the builder before the ground is even dug. This is typically used by more established builders that will take on the liability of a build until completion with a down payment. the down side is you don't really know how much margin/mark-up the builder is making.
Payment schedules will also differ - some will use lump payments, others a bi-weekly draw, others will build with a down payment and the balance at possession.
An option for 'having your creative input' would be to hire an architect to draw plans, then shop builders with your plans.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by core_upt

Obviously detached homes are worth more than semi-detached homes; however, they are more expensive to build as you do not have a 'half' to sell once it is complete.
Resale value is going to be weaker than detached homes, but the lower price point will make it more marketable.

Also, there is no such thing a "real" houses.... they are just different styles of housing. Semi-detached homes make desirable neighbourhoods affordable.

What you are wanting to build is only good for now - if you want to live in half, you are not getting the biggest bang for your buck, and that is to build a nasty duplex, and sell both halves to suckers. Instead you are going to the trouble to be one of those suckers instead. You'll get the benefit now, with all the detriments of the future. The definition of short-sighted. Why?

You are building something with the downsides of a condo, and the downsides of a house, with none of the benefits of a condo, and fewer of the benefits of a house. And you want to live there?

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Hire a designer who can make the most of a 17' wide build and do 2 houses. I just bought a 1910 house of this size on a 25' lot and was willing to pay more to not be attached. I wasn't worried about an extra 4' of house width to guarantee I wasn't a conjoined twin where the other twin wants to be a country singer.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4260178.stm

I would build a single on the full 50' lot or a semi-detached on a subdivided long before 2 singles on 25' lots.

[squiggs96]

This thread is starting to look like the one a couple of years ago where OilKiller wanted to buy a new car, and most people tried to talk him out of it.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=119484

It starts slowly, but at post #38 it picks up.

[Ducay]

Look at the trends; duplexes were in HUGE in the early 70s (look at the Rosscarrok or even Montgomery areas). You'll note that there are tons of duplexs left, and all them are now all run down rentals. Given the choice between attached/detaches no one in their right mind would prefer to live in an attached home, and resale value suffers immensely accordingly once all the high-end finishes wear off, which command the high prices to start with.
And you can bet once the other side starts getting rented out the upkeep/maintenance and quality of neighbors is likely to go down. Sharply. Because, guess what, you're attached....forever

Sorry to sound whingey, but I just see these attached duplexes as the perfect summation of our society as a whole nowadays: Everyone wants everything in terms of bells and whistles right away, even if they can't afford it.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

This thread is starting to look like the one a couple of years ago where OilKiller wanted to buy a new car, and most people tried to talk him out of it.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=119484

It starts slowly, but at post #38 it picks up.

Wow poor guy haha. Pretty comical how everyone completely ignored everything he said and just kept stating their own opinions

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jahrmes

Wow poor guy haha. Pretty comical how everyone completely ignored everything he said and just kept stating their own opinions

He hasn't posted since.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Look at the trends; duplexes were in HUGE in the early 70s (look at the Rosscarrok or even Montgomery areas). You'll note that there are tons of duplexs left, and all them are now all run down rentals. Given the choice between attached/detaches no one in their right mind would prefer to live in an attached home, and resale value suffers immensely accordingly once all the high-end finishes wear off, which command the high prices to start with.
And you can bet once the other side starts getting rented out the upkeep/maintenance and quality of neighbors is likely to go down. Sharply. Because, guess what, you're attached....forever

Sorry to sound whingey, but I just see these attached duplexes as the perfect summation of our society as a whole nowadays: Everyone wants everything in terms of bells and whistles right away, even if they can't afford it.

How are townhouses any different?

[nfotiu]

I am trying to figure out how this makes sense financially for you.

Right now, you have something worth $550,000. If you spend a million, then you've basically spent $1,550,000, plus I am sure there will be some closing fees and all that, so maybe $1,600,000. Probably want to assume you'll get on the lower end of your range for selling, which will be $750,000. If you use a realtor, you'll probably net about $715,000. So you'll have paid about $885,000 for a half a duplex that is worth $750,000 and are out $135,000. I know that is using the worst case numbers on each side of the equation, but I'd think you'd want to be at least breaking even in the worst case to even have a shot at profiting some.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

How are townhouses any different?

Townhouses have a much smaller yard, tend to have attached garages, and take up even less land than a duplex. Townhouses are closer to a condo, and as a result, have more of the benefits of a condo - less outdoor maintenance, even more inexpensive per lot size, tend to be in more desirable neighborhoods. When they aren't in those neighbourhoods, and instead are out in the suburbs, townhouses also tend to end up as rental properties, and don't end up very nice. Duplexes scream "Poor People". Townhouses don't, depending on location.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Knalus

Townhouses have a much smaller yard, tend to have attached garages, and take up even less land than a duplex. Townhouses are closer to a condo, and as a result, have more of the benefits of a condo - less outdoor maintenance, even more inexpensive per lot size, tend to be in more desirable neighborhoods. When they aren't in those neighbourhoods, and instead are out in the suburbs, townhouses also tend to end up as rental properties, and don't end up very nice. Duplexes scream "Poor People". Townhouses don't, depending on location.

You know he wants to build an infill side-by-side right or "semi-detached" home. Nothing about those screams poor people and the reason you don't want it to be detached is because you get a lot less square footage, if you only have 25 foot frontage, you have to maximize your space.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

You know he wants to build an infill side-by-side right or "semi-detached" home. Nothing about those screams poor people and the reason you don't want it to be detached is because you get a lot less square footage, if you only have 25 foot frontage, you have to maximize your space.

Renaming it "semi-detached", or "infill side-by-side" doesn't stop it from being a duplex. You can put as many stainless steel appliances in there, have in floor heating, carerra marble in the shower, your still buying a duplex. And a duplex is a compromise because you cannot afford the real thing.

I know the reason he wants to - he wants to compromise. Sure, go ahead and compromise, but you aren't getting the best of both, you are getting something less. If this was such a good idea, why did no one build duplexes - in any city - in the 80's, or the 90's, or even a decade ago? Because all the duplexes built before were filled with people who could only afford to compromise. Renters.

I think it's a better use of your money to buy a "fully detached" house without the extra square footage filled with shiny things, because as soon as those shiny things dull, the house is going to suck. And the neighbors are going to have to live with renters.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Knalus

Renaming it "semi-detached", or "infill side-by-side" doesn't stop it from being a duplex. You can put as many stainless steel appliances in there, have in floor heating, carerra marble in the shower, your still buying a duplex. And a duplex is a compromise because you cannot afford the real thing.

I know the reason he wants to - he wants to compromise. Sure, go ahead and compromise, but you aren't getting the best of both, you are getting something less. If this was such a good idea, why did no one build duplexes - in any city - in the 80's, or the 90's, or even a decade ago? Because all the duplexes built before were filled with people who could only afford to compromise. Renters.

I think it's a better use of your money to buy a "fully detached" house without the extra square footage filled with shiny things, because as soon as those shiny things dull, the house is going to suck. And the neighbors are going to have to live with renters.

I wish I was as well off as you were.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

I wish I was as well off as you were.

I'm not. I live in a very small house, because I won't compromise and build a POS on my lot.

[Hockeyguy15]

Maybe this thread isn't for you?

[sketchyt]

I looked into this. Here's what my mortgage guy said in terms of securing financing (we never went through a formal process as I wound up selling so he's speaking in generalities):

"Your new mortgage will be a maximum of 80% of the “as complete” value. So if your land is worth $300,000, and the build cost is $900,000, the as complete value is $1,200,000. You can borrow up to 80% of that, which would be $960,000.

You need $900,000 to build the place, and your maximum financing is going to be $960,000 MINUS any outstanding debt you have on the property now. "

So, the variable in the above that affects things most is the land value (and build cost). I assume a 50 foot lot in your area is worth much more than 300k.

I assume there are many other ways to secure financing but that's what I got. Also, my 2 cents... if you have a 50ft lot, building 2 detached homes is more desirable. But it also depends on your hood. It also doesn't cost THAT much more than a duplex. PM me if you want more details on what I found out.

[Fahrns]

Thanks for the replies and PMs so far. Unfortunately, you get what you pay for when asking for advice on the internet. Looks like I might have woken up a few forum Trolls. I have my reasons for wanting to build a semi-detached and I'll just leave it at that.

I'm still curious to learn more about other's experiences with building an infill, working with a general contractor, recommendations, alternative financing options etc. Knowledge is power. This is just my first step before I start seeking professional guidance. I have a lot of friends who have bought new infills, but none that have gone through the build process starting from tear down.