[Rumour] Tallon Actively Shopping 1st Overall Pick in 2014 Draft

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Poe969

He'd instantly become the flames best defensive prospect. If the panthers asked for Brodie in the deal, I wouldn't be against it because we have a player like Russell who can somewhat replace him for the time being and I think Ekblad has a higher ceiling than Brodie does. Something like the 4th + Brodie for the panthers first and something else might work but

An endless cycle of development makes no sense...
TJ Brodie is a 23 year top pairing defenseman.
He is exactly what one hopes Ekblad may become

[Poe969]

No he's not. I'm sure most everyone (except maybe some homers) expect Ekblad to be a lot better than Brodie. I like Brodie but he's only first pairing because the flames have no depth. Brodie could almost replaced by Russell if we had to. Ekblad has franchise defenseman potential.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Poe969

No he's not. I'm sure most everyone (except maybe some homers) expect Ekblad to be a lot better than Brodie. I like Brodie but he's only first pairing because the flames have no depth. Brodie could almost replaced by Russell if we had to. Ekblad has franchise defenseman potential.

I can't say that I agree with you about Brodie. I think that he's clearly a first-pairing defenceman and will be so for the next dozen years. There's no way I'd trade him at this stage of his career. We're building for the long term so why trade a proven player for someone who MIGHT be better in a few years?

[KenHouston]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

An endless cycle of development makes no sense...
TJ Brodie is a 23 year top pairing defenseman.
He is exactly what one hopes Ekblad may become

Well if Ekblad becomes TJ Brodie, can we consider him a bust? No offense but TJ is a decent dman but is being way over valued. Ekblad has franchise potential, comparing him to TJ is crazy. Just the size difference puts them in different categories.

TJ plays 15 mins a game on most playoff teams.

[Rick M.]

I don't see Ekblad having the level of skating required to be an elite player. Now, if he could skate as well as Brodie we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by Poe969

No he's not. I'm sure most everyone (except maybe some homers) expect Ekblad to be a lot better than Brodie. I like Brodie but he's only first pairing because the flames have no depth. Brodie could almost replaced by Russell if we had to. Ekblad has franchise defenseman potential.

This is patently untrue. Brodie is on the first pairing because he earned the spot. Are there better top pairing defensemen in the league? Of course, but that shouldn't take away from the fact that Brodie had a very impressive season, and the underlying numbers strongly support that.

I think trading Brodie, a 23 yr old defenseman that could play top-4 on any team in the league, plus our 4th overall to move up to #1 is an overpayment to the degree of being a fireable offense.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Poe969

No he's not. I'm sure most everyone (except maybe some homers) expect Ekblad to be a lot better than Brodie. I like Brodie but he's only first pairing because the flames have no depth. Brodie could almost replaced by Russell if we had to. Ekblad has franchise defenseman potential.

Please use some stats or SOMETHING to back this up. I've heard fans of playoff teams that have nothing but good things to say about Brodie.

Remember when we had Butler on the top D pairing? That was due to a lack of depth (as well as Feaster trying to prove he didn't make a terrible trade). Butler was quite obviously in over his head and took tons of heat from the fans.

Brodie on the first pairing is nothing but applause night-in and night-out by just about every flames fan. To me, that says he can be considered a top pairing D man. If not now than in a couple more years of development as he's still young and years from his prime.

I'm all for trading up to get Ekblad, but not if it means trading Brodie.

[Bingo]

I certainly wouldn't over pay to move up because while I see value in that first pick, I don't see the gap between 1 and 4 to be so huge that you have to bid like crazy to make the swap.

Have to look at it though.

The biggest concern I have with drafting Ekblad is the defenseman factor. Seems like too many of these guys have been traded in their first 5 seasons in the league because teams that selected them have grown impatient watching forwards from their draft class excel, leaving the blueliners behind/

Jones is certainly an exception last year.

Hedman is coming into his own now, but Tavares has been dominating for two seasons.

G. Reinhart in danger of the Isles panicking and moving him?

Gudbranson developing slower than the likes of Hall, Seguin, and Johansen (Johansen just turned the corner)

I'm sure Treliving and Burke are aware of this, but taking a top defenseman requires more patience and a longer term development plan.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

I can't say that I agree with you about Brodie. I think that he's clearly a first-pairing defenceman and will be so for the next dozen years. There's no way I'd trade him at this stage of his career. We're building for the long term so why trade a proven player for someone who MIGHT be better in a few years?

Because Oilers.

Last thing I want is the Flames to be trading any of our young developed guys for unproven players.

I also find it hilarious when people get down on a guy like Sven. He has the same point/game avg. as Monahan.

Patience is key in this rebuild.

In trading for the 1st overall, I would move unproven commodities (draft picks) or aging players (Hudler/Wideman, etc.) first.

[Monahan23]

Think this would be a bad idea, right now it looks like Draisaitl sneaks in the top 3 because rumour is that Edmonton and Buffalo really like Draisaitl, so is the difference between Bennett or Reinhart and Ekblad enough to give one of our top prospects or a top roster player, I don't think it is

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Because Oilers.

Last thing I want is the Flames to be trading any of our young developed guys for unproven players.

I also find it hilarious when people get down on a guy like Sven. He has the same point/game avg. as Monahan.

Patience is key in this rebuild.

In trading for the 1st overall, I would move unproven commodities (draft picks) or aging players (Hudler/Wideman, etc.) first.

Good post! I agree with you about Sven, also. It's interesting to see how often Sven was on the ice when Monahan was particularly hot early in the season. I find the same talk about Backlund and Brodie. The 'let's trade them because they had good seasons and can't repeat' foolishness. This seems to me to show a lack of confidence when you have a good thing going for you. You might just as well trade them for magic beans.

[IliketoPuck]

It's the shiny new car syndrome.

Brodie would easily get you the first overall. Florida would be stupid to not take that trade.

The problem then becomes that you've traded Brodie (or insert other fully developed roster player) + whoever you would have picked at 4th for a player that is marginally better than whoever the Flames take at 4.

It isn't like we are in a position to be picky about who we draft. We need elite talent, and we need it everywhere. Moving a top pairing defensemen who is 23 and drafting Ekblad is taking 3 steps backwards to take 1 step sideways.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by KenHouston

Well if Ekblad becomes TJ Brodie, can we consider him a bust? No offense but TJ is a decent dman but is being way over valued. Ekblad has franchise potential, comparing him to TJ is crazy. Just the size difference puts them in different categories.

TJ plays 15 mins a game on most playoff teams.

Every year it's the same conversation: this guy has franchise potential, comparing him to XXX (a good defenseman that's actually playing well in the NHL) is crazy.

Well, let's look at the last 20 defensemen to be lottery picks and see how many of them are actually better than Brodie. I gave them 4 rankings: (yes - top defensemen; too soon to tell; similar - playing at a level about the same as Brodie; no - not as good)

Drafted #1:
E Johnson: similar (finally, though he is older)

Drafted #2:
Murray: too soon
Hedman: yes
Doughty: yes

Drafted #3:
Gudbranson: too soon
Bogosian: similar (being kind)
J Johnson: no
Barker: no
Bouwmeester: similar (consider their roles and how Bow performed in the role Brodie currently has)

Drafted #4:
Jones: too soon
Reinhart: too soon
Larsson: too soon
Pietrangelo: yes
Hickey: no
Pitkanen: no
Klesla: no

Drafted #5:
Rielly: too soon
Schenn: no
Alzner: no
Whitney: no

3 yes
3 similar (being kind IMO)
8 no (3 or 4 total busts)
6 too soon

Of the too sooners (Jones, Murray, Reinhart, Rielly, Gudbranson, Larsson), it is probably reasonable to guess that 2 or 3 will be better and 3 or 4 will be similar or not as good

In total, maybe 1/3 will be/are better, 1/3 or less will be/are similar, and more than 1/3 are worse, with a few total busts.

I am not suggesting that Ekblad won't be as good as Brodie, but it is far from certain that he'll be better.

Based on the historical returns for lottery forwards vs lottery defensemen, Bennett is probably a much better bet to be a great player than Ekblad.

So to suggest trading Bennett and Brodie for Ekblad is complete lunacy IMO.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Ped

He can't go there the season after either, which is what you're suggesting.

In that case I must have gotten age wrong.
I guess then junior for a year and then jump to Nhl instead of Ahl, still 4 years before he has impact.

[Rick M.]

I wouldn't even trade Brodie for Ekblad if we could keep our 4th pick. What if Ekblad turns into a second pairing d-man?

[theoforever]

Limited resources have to be allocated in most efficient manner.
Trading Brodie for Ekblad is like dog chasing his tail.

Ekblad is not a franchise d-man, could be #2 guy kind of like phaneuf or bouwmeester in few years.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Limited resources have to be allocated in most efficient manner.
Trading Brodie for Ekblad is like dog chasing his tail.

Ekblad is not a franchise d-man, could be #2 guy kind of like phaneuf or bouwmeester in few years.

Who's the sure thing in this draft then? You have all the answers!

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Who's the sure thing in this draft then? You have all the answers!

I know enough not to give up a sure thing like Brodie most likely #3 guy for magic beans. If i had 2 or 3 Brodies then lets take the gamble perhaps.
As for the Ekblad's potential I'm just going by what the experts are saying.
I saw him a couple of times and went, not bad.

[Ashasx]

Ekblad certainly has the potential to be a franchise defenceman.

I'm sure if people believed Weber had the potential to be one, he wouldn't have been drafted in the 2nd round.

[Husky]

The Flames cannot afford to trade Brodie at this point. The Flames also need a D like Ekblad as well.

Both D would actually (on paper) compliment each other very well.

To move up 3 spots I could see 4th overall plus Backlund being enough.

If its not, I wouldn't chase the trade.