[News] Kevin Hayes signs with the Rangers

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Busted by a bust. There is a joke in there somewhere.

Very Meta

[Lanny_McDonald]

Has there been any further word on Hayes? Curious if Chicago would move Hayes for the Avalanche 2nd in this draft and forgo the late 2nd in 2015? We need size on the right side and Hayes would bring a player several years closer to the NHL than a 2014 pick. Might be worth the gamble of a found pick, especially with our immediate and longer term needs.

[Jay Random]

I don't see any percentage in moving assets for Hayes at this point. The way I figure it, if he wants to sign in Florida, he can refuse to sign with the Flames just as easily as the Hawks; and if he wants to sign in Calgary, the Flames can sign him just as easily as a UFA.

I haven't heard that any other clubs are really in the running at this point. So at best it would be giving up a 2nd-round pick to get a 100% chance of a crack at signing Hayes instead of a 50% chance. That might be worth doing for a proven NHLer, but it's a bit stiff for a prospect who isn't sure-fire. If you exercise the draft pick and then take your chances on Hayes as a free agent, you probably end up with better odds of getting at least one NHL player at the end of the day.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by New Era

Has there been any further word on Hayes? Curious if Chicago would move Hayes for the Avalanche 2nd in this draft and forgo the late 2nd in 2015? We need size on the right side and Hayes would bring a player several years closer to the NHL than a 2014 pick. Might be worth the gamble of a found pick, especially with our immediate and longer term needs.

Or just wait until he is a UFA and sign him at that point. That way the Flames don't potentially waste a 2nd rounder.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I don't see any percentage in moving assets for Hayes at this point. The way I figure it, if he wants to sign in Florida, he can refuse to sign with the Flames just as easily as the Hawks; and if he wants to sign in Calgary, the Flames can sign him just as easily as a UFA.

Only way I'd do any type of deal is if the Flames did it the way they did with Knight... ask the Hawks for permission to negotiate with him and agree to trade the agreed upon price if he agrees to sign. I wouldn't trade anything of value for 3 months of exclusive negotiating rights.

[Coach]

I just don't see why you would want someone like this. Yes, there are players above him on the depth chart, players that, like him, have made their way through the junior/college ranks, paid their dues with the minor club and have earned their places on the team. What has Hayes done for Chicago Blackhawks to earn a place on the team out of college? Does it happen? For sure it does, but it's not a forgone conclusion that a first rounder comes straight from college and into the NHL, and to expect that for himself without proving anything is just dickish. Don't want to play in the AHL? Work your tail off and earn your spot on the team.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I just don't see why you would want someone like this. Yes, there are players above him on the depth chart, players that, like him, have made their way through the junior/college ranks, paid their dues with the minor club and have earned their places on the team. What has Hayes done for Chicago Blackhawks to earn a place on the team out of college? Does it happen? For sure it does, but it's not a forgone conclusion that a first rounder comes straight from college and into the NHL, and to expect that for himself without proving anything is just dickish. Don't want to play in the AHL? Work your tail off and earn your spot on the team.

So we made a mistake trading for Corban Knight? I hate that college players can do this but the kid fills an organizational need and has solid relationships with 2 other prospects. Sign him if we can

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So we made a mistake trading for Corban Knight? I hate that college players can do this but the kid fills an organizational need and has solid relationships with 2 other prospects. Sign him if we can

The Knight scenario was different because there was no compensation for Florida if he didn't sign. If you could get Hayes' rights for a 4th or 5th, you'd do it. But you have to move a 2nd rounder to get Hayes since the Blackhawks have that sitting in the bank if they don't move him.

[Coach]

Also, Knight has spent the entire season in the AHL, something that Hayes doesn't seem to be willing to do.

The whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The Knight scenario was different because there was no compensation for Florida if he didn't sign. If you could get Hayes' rights for a 4th or 5th, you'd do it. But you have to move a 2nd rounder to get Hayes since the Blackhawks have that sitting in the bank if they don't move him.

Of course it will cost (at minimum) a 2nd rounder to get Hayes rights.

That's fine, there is no risk, because if the Flames traded for his rights and couldn't get him signed then the Flames would receive the 54th overall pick in the 2015 draft as compensation.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Also, Knight has spent the entire season in the AHL, something that Hayes doesn't seem to be willing to do.

The whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I think if we sign him he is going to have to play in the AHL bun likely gets to do it with his buddies

I don't like this loop hole either but have no issue if the flames sign him

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Also, Knight has spent the entire season in the AHL, something that Hayes doesn't seem to be willing to do.

What is that based on? I havn't seen anything in regards to an NHL placement demand... did I miss an interview on the matter?

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I hate that college players can do this

... all players can do this. 4 years is the standard period under which the draft grants NHL teams a exclusive negotiating right.

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don't like this loop hole either

It's not a loophole. A loophole is an ambiguity or inadequacy in a system, which can be used to circumvent or otherwise avoid the intent of the system. This is not that.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Of course it will cost (at minimum) a 2nd rounder to get Hayes rights.

That's fine, there is no risk, because if the Flames traded for his rights and couldn't get him signed then the Flames would receive the 54th overall pick in the 2015 draft as compensation.

But there is a risk. If the Hawks don't trade his rights, they will receive the 54th overall pick in the 2015 draft. Therefore, it will take something more valuable than that pick to persuade the Hawks to part with his rights. The difference in value is what is being risked.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

But there is a risk. If the Hawks don't trade his rights, they will receive the 54th overall pick in the 2015 draft. Therefore, it will take something more valuable than that pick to persuade the Hawks to part with his rights. The difference in value is what is being risked.

Okay....there is minimal risk.

It's nit like the Flames would give up a 2nd rounder for his rights and then have him walk away and get zilch in return.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Parallex

... all players can do this. 4 years is the standard period under which the draft grants NHL teams exclusive negotiating rights.

2 years, actually, for most players; then they re-enter the draft, and if they go a further 2 years without signing, they're free as birds. College players are stuck for 4 years but can proceed directly to free agency thereafter.

The only advantage college players really have in this respect is that they have a place to play while waiting out those four years. Players drafted out of junior don't really have a lot of options between age 20 and free agency, if they don't want to sign with the NHL team that holds their rights.

(Though we could start seeing North American players signing in the KHL while waiting for UFA status. If that becomes common, the whole draft system could be in jeopardy.)

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Okay....there is minimal risk.

It's nit like the Flames would give up a 2nd rounder for his rights and then have him walk away and get zilch in return.

No, but the point is that a late 2nd-rounder is unlikely to get the deal done in the first place. Would you feel like the Flames hadn't risked anything if they gave up pick #34 this year and were compensated with #54 next year?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, but the point is that a late 2nd-rounder is unlikely to get the deal done in the first place. Would you feel like the Flames hadn't risked anything if they gave up pick #34 this year and were compensated with #54 next year?

That's not much of a risk at all, especially since trades like this aren't usually made without the acquiring team being quite confident in their ability to get the player in question signed.

Not to mention that next years draft is supposed to be ridiculously deep (much much deeper than this years) so they might end up with a better prospect with the 54th in 2015 than they would with the 34th in 2014.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

2 years, actually, for most players; then they re-enter the draft, and if they go a further 2 years without signing, they're free as birds. College players are stuck for 4 years but can proceed directly to free agency thereafter.

The only advantage college players really have in this respect is that they have a place to play while waiting out those four years. Players drafted out of junior don't really have a lot of options between age 20 and free agency, if they don't want to sign with the NHL team that holds their rights.

(Though we could start seeing North American players signing in the KHL while waiting for UFA status. If that becomes common, the whole draft system could be in jeopardy.)

Yeah, Major Junior guys go back in the draft... that's why I used "a" NHL team as opposed to "the" NHL team. Point being that a young amateur player can only have restricted negotiating rights for 4 years regardless of the development stream they come out of.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

That's not much of a risk at all, especially since trades like this aren't usually made without the acquiring team being quite confident in their ability to get the player in question signed.

If you're that confident, why not just wait till August and sign him for nothing?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If you're that confident, why not just wait till August and sign him for nothing?

The sooner he gets signed the better. The sooner the coaches can get in front of him, and lay out what's expected of him, the better. Development camp is usually in July, and it would be much better for him and the organization if he were there, and not twisting in the wind.