[News] Flames hire Treliving as GM

[HerbalMagic]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Sorry, the power lines are so blurry...

They shouldn't be...Its been stated how many times that they aren't blurry. People just love to make it sound that way. Listen to the interviews, listen to even Conroy on his latest Fan960 interview. Its getting tiresome people keep making Burke out to be the total power hunger maniac, when all other signs point to him not being like that at all behind the scenes.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by HerbalMagic

They shouldn't be...Its been stated how many times that they aren't blurry. People just love to make it sound that way. Listen to the interviews, listen to even Conroy on his latest Fan960 interview. Its getting tiresome people keep making Burke out to be the total power hunger maniac, when all other signs point to him not being like that at all behind the scenes.

Relax, its a joke, I heard the interviews including Connie's.
I'm sure Burke will give enough rope for Treliving to hang himself.
But make no mistake who has the final word.
The only reason Treliving can be the GM of a rebuilding team is because Burke is here.

[SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Looks like Gaudreau will likely be spending the year in Abbotsford no matter how good he looks in camp.

By the sounds of it in his presser, Treliving would've sent down Monahan last camp if it were up to him.

Monahan played his way on the team. It's not like the Flames gave him the spot just because he the the #6 played drafted.

Honestly if Gaudreau clearly shows he is one of the better players in the camp, I see him starting the regular season.

[HerbalMagic]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Relax, its a joke, I heard the interviews including Connie's.
I'm sure Burke will give enough rope for Treliving to hang himself.
But make no mistake who has the final word.
The only reason Treliving can be the GM of a rebuilding team is because Burke is here.

We need some new jokes around here, this one aint funny no more...

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by HerbalMagic

We need some new jokes around here, this one aint funny no more...

Well we covered BP and DD as well.

I got no problem with Treliving as our GM, but only because Burke is here.
Not that I think Burke is the greatest genius in hockey but I have seen enough Button's, Gilberts, Risers etc. Ohh, and people wanted Nieuwy, ouch nice trading there, reminds me of Riser.

It could have been worse we could have gotten one of Leaftreads.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Monahan played his way on the team. It's not like the Flames gave him the spot just because he the the #6 played drafted.

Honestly if Gaudreau clearly shows he is one of the better players in the camp, I see him starting the regular season.

Plus they are in two entirely different situations... The decision to burn a year of ELC on a 19 year old draft pick (instead of sliding it) is a difficult choice.
Gaudreau's contract counts, no matter where he plays

[Phanuthier]

Burke on Treliving from FAN960 (1 day old).....didn't see this posted yet:

- has been talking for a long time and asking people who are the young guys, Treliving was on every list, some he was the 1st. Thought PHX would wait till after the draft. This isn't a typical business where you narrow a list and pick someone. Its a tight industry, so you have a sense of who you want. Brian Burke goes to games at 5:15 when most go to the scouts at 6pm, cause he's there to do his interview (they dont' know it, but he does). He only interviewed 1 guy for Randy Carlyle. Crawford.
- what he looks for : 1. intellect, there are 29 selfish GM's trying to beat your team and they are good, 2. work ethic, 3. training (who did he learn under), 4. what home runs do they have? what is their body of work? (Reference: CliffFletcher saying not to evaluate GM's by their trades), 5. must love the game (i.e. must be a hockey guy, see point below)
- wanted a guy who loved hockey, esp where he played (not glamerous) and then the central hockey league..... wanted a guy who lives and breathes hockey. Also training and hard work. You don't play in the ECHL for 6 years for the money. Then went to work for teams, then went to run a league.
- need small ears and thick skin in canada
- mentoring - paraphrasing, he's more ears to throw idea off of or talk through, but does not veto

[theoforever]

can't stop laughing that Fletcher said not to evaluate GM's by the trades, ironic.......

[Fire]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Looks like Gaudreau will likely be spending the year in Abbotsford no matter how good he looks in camp.

By the sounds of it in his presser, Treliving would've sent down Monahan last camp if it were up to him.

You are definitely reaching on both statements.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Fire

You are definitely reaching on both statements.

Glad to hear that. I really wanted to not burn a year of Monahan's ELC, but the way he played (both in camp and during the season) I don't think he'd have been able to develop as well in the OHL.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But what I really don't understand is why anyone would refuse to recognise his current distinction, which effectively puts him in very good stead to be an excellent GM.

Maybe because the same things were said about Craig Button, and he was an unmitigated disaster for the Calgary Flames. I remember when Button was hired, what a coup it was, and how much praise was heaped on him from all corners of the hockey world. That was a very dark time for the club and produced very little.

Someone said it earlier in the thread that the wild card is Burke and the number of hockey people Treliving is going to be surrounded with. I think we'll see at the draft what kind of GM Treliving is going to be, and how he relies on those other hockey minds. It will be interesting to see the course he plots going forward, as he has a number of very good young players to work with. I'm hopeful, but also skeptical. I hope Treliving is going to be a winner, but I still see the ghost of Craig Button skulking around in the background, which tempers my enthusiasm.

[TheKing]

Highly intelligent, played the game for a long time. Operated a part of the game for a long time, started a business and was successful, did great as a AGM, lots a praise, and will be mentored by a pretty good GM imo.

It all points to good things and he should avoid any rookie mistakes having burke around.
He couldn't be more setup for major success or failure then he is now. But I'd put my bets on success everyday of the week.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

Maybe because the same things were said about Craig Button, and he was an unmitigated disaster for the Calgary Flames.

If Button had had a Burke type above him bridging the gap between the two management eras we likely would've protected Giguere and maybe Kuba in the expansion draft and certainly wouldn't have bought out St. Louis. A lot of Button's biggest mistakes were in the first few months before he knew the team. Burke will prevent similar disaster from Treliving because Burke knows the current team better than Treliving.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by theoforever

can't stop laughing that Fletcher said not to evaluate GM's by the trades, ironic.......

For the record, I've never said trades are irrelevant. I've said it's not the most important job of a GM.

1) Drafting and Development
2) Management (coaching hires, cap management, overall leadership)
3) Trades

Trades are the most visible and exciting part for fans. But the best GMs don't make many of them. Ken Holland may be least active trader in the NHL. Even the Coyotes, whose record we're judging Treliving by, make few trades. They've built through the draft, which is the proper way to build a team. Trades are often necessitated out of mistakes and holes in drafting and development.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Because he's never been an excellent GM (and to be fair he's never been a bad one either). I don't have people start with an "A" grade and then get to lose it... IMO they gotta earn that grade.



Except that he's not... more accurately he'd be like a top-three draft pick that you'd never seen play and that had no available individual stats to peruse. If someone went out and drafted a player like that in the top 3 most fanbases would freak-out regardless of whether he had glowing reports or not. Would they quickly change their tune if said player then showed that he was worth the pedigree? Of course they would. By that standard Treliving is getting off easy. Really though their not equivalent situations and I think calling him 'like a top-three draft pick' is a little bit of revisionism... I'm scanning the 'who do we want as GM' thread... not a lot of pining for Treliving so it's not like he was a known commodity ala Nill pre-Dallas.

Sorry, the org hasn't earned the cred lately to go off and make hires and expect an immediate vote of confidence on whomever they hire absent a record. That kind of cred was spent a long long time ago. They gotta earn back.

Sounds like you wanted an experienced GM. But an experienced GM would be a retread. The job qualification for being a top-flight GM in the NHL is typically being an AGM first (often for another team). It's not a reach at all to hire one of the more highly regarded AGMs in the league.

[theoforever]

I went by what is written in a post. Got to admit Fletcher reference is funny.
Wasn't making judgment on your evaluation of what is important.
Feaster got crucified for his trades.
Snow must be doing snow angles.
Anyway, one bad trade can set organization back for years.
All aspects of the job are important.

Btw. I took fletcher as the former GM not you.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Sounds like you wanted an experienced GM.

Not at all. I wanted a new guy (so long as he's not being hired just as a front for Burke). But just because I wanted a new guy doesn't mean that I'm going to prematurely proclaim him a good hire. That determination will only come in time. I'm not crapping on the hire at all... I'm just not going to declare it great until it demonstrably is great.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Not at all. I wanted a new guy (so long as he's not being hired just as a front for Burke). But just because I wanted a new guy doesn't mean that I'm going to prematurely proclaim him a good hire. That determination will only come in time. I'm not crapping on the hire at all... I'm just not going to declare it great until it demonstrably is great.

The poll is asking if you like it not if you are proclaiming him as a good or great GM. Heck even Burke can't declare it great as it's going to have to play out. We are all just hoping for the best but this guy sounds promising at least.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by HerbalMagic

They shouldn't be...Its been stated how many times that they aren't blurry. People just love to make it sound that way. Listen to the interviews, listen to even Conroy on his latest Fan960 interview. Its getting tiresome people keep making Burke out to be the total power hunger maniac, when all other signs point to him not being like that at all behind the scenes.

If Burke was being honest about his reasons for not taking the best offer available for Cammalleri at the deadline, then the lines are at least somewhat blurred. "Organizations" don't get reputations for being taken advantage of in trades - people do - so he must still plan on being directly involved in duties that are traditionally reserved for GMs. Not that that's a bad thing.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Because he's never been an excellent GM (and to be fair he's never been a bad one either). I don't have people start with an "A" grade and then get to lose it... IMO they gotta earn that grade.

Am I correct in assuming then that you would hold the same position for any person the Flames had hired with no prior GM experience? Again, my real problem with your posts is your persistent refusal to acknowledge the value of Treliving's accomplishments.

Originally Posted by Parallex

Except that he's not... more accurately he'd be like a top-three draft pick that you'd never seen play and that had no available individual stats to peruse. If someone went out and drafted a player like that in the top 3 most fanbases would freak-out regardless of whether he had glowing reports or not.

So, you reject my analogy because he was not well known among fans. That is preposterous. The FACT is that Brad Treliving has been very highly regarded among hockey professionals for a long time now. Do you take issue with their opinion? From where I sit, it is the only one that really matters, and if hockey experts agree that Treliving is one of the best up-and-coming GMs in waiting, then who am I—who are you—to argue with them?

Originally Posted by Parallex

Would they quickly change their tune if said player then showed that he was worth the pedigree? Of course they would. By that standard Treliving is getting off easy. Really though their not equivalent situations and I think calling him 'like a top-three draft pick' is a little bit of revisionism... I'm scanning the 'who do we want as GM' thread... not a lot of pining for Treliving so it's not like he was a known commodity ala Nill pre-Dallas.

You're right about him being an unknown commodity among fans, but why would you even care about that? (For the record, Treliving's name did actually come up a handful of times in the same company with Futa and Benning close to the beginning of the Flames' GM search.) Treliving most certainly WAS a known commodity within the hockey world, and among NHL executives, and all we have heard from these people about him has been overwhelmingly positive. He IS a top three draft pick: In the sense that he was at the top of everyone's list of who they wanted to run their organisation if there was vacancy.

Originally Posted by Parallex

Sorry, the org hasn't earned the cred lately to go off and make hires and expect an immediate vote of confidence on whomever they hire absent a record. That kind of cred was spent a long long time ago. They gotta earn back.

Whatever. When I look at Treliving's resumé it is impossible not to be impressed. It is silly to hold the franchise's past mistakes against them when they have hired a quality person.

If you have a problem with Treliving beyond his lack of experience as a GM, then you should spell it out more clearly. He isn't a great or even a good GM yet, but like I said earlier, he has the qualities that would seem to indicate he will be very successful in his new job.