No more fighting in junior hockey?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by elpatzer

Just an FYI there is fighting in the NLL. I'll look it up but I seem to recall that the number of fights / NLL game was remarkably close to that of an NHL game. I'm not supporting either argument here just pointing out the parallels in the two sports with boards and weapons.

Yeah I wasn't/isn't sure.

It was more a response to the "hockey is emotional".

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Fire

Hitting has go as well (like it or not). It causes more injuries than fighting and it's also not necessary.

Hitting is within the rules of the game.


Is fighting?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Hitting is within the rules of the game.


Is fighting?

The game evolves.
The forward pass used to be illegal

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Appears you don't much about the sport..........








I ain't making your point, I am having a discussion, a free exchange of ideas.

Thanks for the information on Lacorsse. I said that I didn't know much about it.

What is the prevalence of fighting in Lacrosse?

Sorry, but could not care less about rugby. Don't know anything about modern rugby.

From couple of interviews of lacrosse players they maintained that lacrosse was more violent and physical than hockey. I don't know statistics as I don't follow the sport but from what I have heard fighting is common but as I said, don't have stats and I'm not going to look it up.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

The game evolves.
The forward pass used to be illegal

I have no issue with legal hitting in the game.


My question was is fighting with in the rules of hockey?

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Yeah I wasn't/isn't sure.

It was more a response to the "hockey is emotional".

Fast paced game, with a lot of physical contact, lots of cheap shots, lots of hitting, lots of stick work, fast reaction times.
Tempers go up things are done in a heat of the moment

Not sure why 'hockey is emotional' would be a sticking point.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Sorry, but could not care less about rugby. Don't know anything about modern rugby.

Don't apologize to me. I could not care less about your apology

From couple of interviews of lacrosse players they maintained that lacrosse was more violent and physical than hockey. I don't know statistics as I don't follow the sport but from what I have heard fighting is common but as I said, don't have stats and I'm not going to look it up.

Lacrosse is more violent, but it is more violent without fighting, the rule of the game even at youth level is more violent.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by theoforever

And the cooke's of hockey will multiply.
My point is that if you remove fighting there will be more cheap shots in the game.

Yawn. Any stats to back this up?

Edit: Not trying to be dismissive - can you actually provide stats that show a correlation between the amount of fighting and the amount of "cheap" penalties. Is kneeing, butt ending, charging, hitting form behind, etc. on the rise over the last few years? I didn't watch hockey in the 80's, were those plays completely non existent when players were free to self police?

Originally Posted by Fire

Hitting has go as well (like it or not). It causes more injuries than fighting and it's also not necessary.

Maybe you're right, (although it certainly doesn't cause more injuries per instance than fighting) maybe it is time for the NHL to remove fighting. The NFL is trying to remove hitting form football...

Maybe it is time we question how we view professional sports and athletes. Is it actually humane to kill others for entertainment? Every year more and more statistics come out showing the harm of head injuries on the future quality of life of our athletes. Society doesn't view Gladiators as an acceptable form of entertainment any more - maybe it's time to question contact sports?

Before someone over reacts I'm not actually suggesting we remove hitting form hockey....

Just because it was done in the past doesn't mean we have to continue to do it. Fighting in hockey is outdated and has no real place in the game. If you want to watch people fight there is a UFC every Saturday. I'd rather watch hockey for, I don't know, hockey?

And just for fun. How much fighting is the right amount of fighting? Fighting is down from the 80's but still way up from the 60's. So for the sake of doing things how things were done in the past shouldn't we strive to continue to reduce fighting until it's in line with how hockey used to be played?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Fast paced game, with a lot of physical contact, lots of cheap shots, lots of hitting, lots of stick work, fast reaction times.
Tempers go up things are done in a heat of the moment

Not sure why 'hockey is emotional' would be a sticking point.

It is not a sticking point, rather I see it as a crutch to rationalize stupidity and fighting.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Hitting is within the rules of the game.

Lawyers looking for someone to sue won't care. It causes harm to others and therefore apparently needs to be remove from the game. The NHL needs to to enforce full cage masks as well. The insurers will demand it if we see many more pucks to face incidents.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

It is not a sticking point, rather I see it as a crutch to rationalize stupidity and fighting.

You are entitled to your opinion.
I believe that removal of fighting will increase injuries, especially to the more talented players.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by theoforever

You are entitled to your opinion.
I believe that removal of fighting will increase injuries, especially to the more talented players.

That's not borne out in any leagues without fighting though, so it seems like maybe it's wrong?

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

That's not borne out in any leagues without fighting though, so it seems like maybe it's wrong?

Yes, you have opened my eyes, I agree. All the other sports are similar in nature to hockey. And checkers is played on the same board as chess.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Fire

Lawyers looking for someone to sue won't care. It causes harm to others and therefore apparently needs to be remove from the game. The NHL needs to to enforce full cage masks as well. The insurers will demand it if we see many more pucks to face incidents.

If the three major safety concerns are fighting, hitting and pucks to the face wouldn't it make sense to eliminate fighting first? Here's my logic:

• There were 508 fights in the regular season last year. Let's say 10 resulted in concussions (very conservative) then we would have a serious incident frequency of 2%.

• There were 49,200 hits in the regular season (assuming 20 per game per team) and lets say each team lost 10 players to concussion during the season there would be 300 concussions resulting in a serious incident frequency of 0.6%

• There were 73,800 shots last season (assuming 30 per game per team) and if each player got hit in the face once that's 600 pucks to the face or a serious incident frequency of 0.8%

So, exaggerations of removing hitting from hockey and forcing players to wear cages aside would you not agree that in the name of player safety fighting should be the first to go? After all it has the highest injury frequency out of all other "plays" in hockey. Plays in quotes because a fight is not a hockey play.

[GGG]

For fighting in jr hockey I think it is a no brainer to get rid of it. Most of these players are not going to be professionals. So really the WHL is no different the adult mens leagues around the city. Anyone play Mens Hockey with fighting in it still? Anyone going to work with knocked out teeth? If you don't play in a Men's league with fighting I don't think you can argue for Jr hockey at any level to have fighting in it. Why would you subject kids to someting that you wouldn't do yourself.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Yes, you have opened my eyes, I agree. All the other sports are similar in nature to hockey. And checkers is played on the same board as chess.

I'm talking about hockey. Terrible sarcasm by the way.

Fighting is not allowed in many HOCKEY leagues, and the rampant injuries you describe aren't happening. This theory of yours isn't borne out in fact.

Sarcastic response?

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Should we trust people that have nothing to do with the sport to tell everyone how it should be done?

Hockey is emotional game and revenge plays part in everything.

I have my opinion and you have yours.

Emotions never run higher than in the Olympics and current NHL playoffs and I don't see a whole lot of fighting. Explain that with respect to the NHL playoffs. I didn't see St. Louis going after Seabrook with vengeance.

[Derek Sutton]

This is not really news, fighting is essentially banned everywhere in hockey except the CHL and the NHL. The CHL will soon "ban it" though by adding a game misconduct to a fighting major. 5 and a game for a fight, get 3 game misconducts and recieve a suspension. Get a 4th and receive a further suspension and so on, I believe this is how the AJHL currently does it.

There is no fighting (very, very little) in AAA midget, it is very physical and competitive. At the next level all hell can break lose, why? To me the line should be drawn where pay cheques start. If you are being paid, and an adult, it is your choice. David Branch will make the elimination of fighting his legacy in the CHL. Though they cannot control players emotions and reactions, supplemental suspentions will eliminate repeat offenders.

Everyone is mixing the NHL in on this discussion and to me it is totally different.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

This is not really news, fighting is essentially banned everywhere in hockey except the CHL and the NHL. The CHL will soon "ban it" though by adding a game misconduct to a fighting major. 5 and a game for a fight, get 3 game misconducts and recieve a suspension. Get a 4th and receive a further suspension and so on, I believe this is how the AJHL currently does it.

There is no fighting (very, very little) in AAA midget, it is very physical and competitive. At the next level all hell can break lose, why? To me the line should be drawn where pay cheques start. If you are being paid, and an adult, it is your choice. David Branch will make the elimination of fighting his legacy in the CHL. Though they cannot control players emotions and reactions, supplemental suspentions will eliminate repeat offenders.

Everyone is mixing the NHL in on this discussion and to me it is totally different.

I like the current OHL rule where they limit guys to 10 fights... I'd probably lower it to five but it helps eliminate a lot of the plug on plug fights that happen in junior and saves kids from getting punched in the head repeatedly to stay on the team without outright banning it.

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by Scooter

Emotions never run higher than in the Olympics and current NHL playoffs and I don't see a whole lot of fighting. Explain that with respect to the NHL playoffs. I didn't see St. Louis going after Seabrook with vengeance.

In Olympics everything is called, bigger surface, less stick work, less physical.
The most important fact is that those are the best players in the world, their game is to make amazing plays.
NHL is littered with knuckleheads of substandard skills, so they hack and slash and hit the talented players because everyone wants to make money.

According to Burke, star players these days are abused way more since the introduction of instigator penalty.

TV guys said that first game of the season Seabrook will have to answer.
However, Backes did hit Seabrook from behind and his head went into glass so perhaps they are even.