[News] Burke says he is unlikely to trade up... hasn't watched Bennett

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by T@T

Who was that?

[djsFlames]

So this is what happens to threads after the season's done.

[saXon]

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by snipetype

...The term ""off-the-board" is simply that. A term. It is sports jargon. It means a guy is drafted a lot higher than he was ranked by scouting services and media "ëxperts".
No one is trying to say that there is a literal board. It's a figure of speech!

Yes, it is a figure of speech used to describe the media and fan perspective of how players rank in an upcoming draft. On that we can all agree.

However, where I think the disconnect is in this discussion is in how meaningful "the board" is in reality. The point that several players are making is that as the draft gets deeper, every team will have rankings and projections that are progressively different from one another. When a team selects a player where the media does not expect him to be drafted, other teams who may have had him similarly ranked will simply remove him from their own list and focus on their next pick. In the end, we never really know how close "the board" reflects the draft because teams are not transparent about their own lists, even after the fact. All we have to go on to determine how good or bad any respective pick is is how players develop.

All this is to say that we really don't know how many or which teams were prepared to draft Jankowski between picks #22–30, nor how many or which teams were ready to take Poirier between #23–28. We can say a player appear to have been selected "off the board", meaning that he was picked well before or after where outside observers had projected him. But as far as the consensus among teams is concerned, we don't really know anything beyond which teams actually selected which players at their respective draft positions.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Thomas Hickey was taken 4th overall, not a guy considered by most to be a top 5 pick.

Blake Wheeler was taken 5th overall, not a guy considered by most to be a top 5 pick.

When the Flames took Derek Morris 13th many scouts of other teams apparently openly laughed at the pick. It stands as one of the best picks in the draft. Because the Flames had the conviction to take a guy they liked more than most.

There is no board. There's 30 teams with 30 different lists. There's also Redline, CSS, ISS, etc with their own different lists that aren't the same as the lists of the 30 teams. So there's 35ish different "boards". No single board. There is no "off the board". There are teams that have the conviction and balls to follow their own analysis and instincts and draft the guys they like best and think will be the best NHLers. There is no consensus on this.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by nik-

lol so what. We never heard it from anyone outside of the organization, so all those comments need to be taken with a grain of salt.

A year after the draft The Hockey News or Bob Mackenzie polled some scouts to do a re-do of the 1st round and Jankowski was considered a first rounder still.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

A year after the draft The Hockey News or Bob Mackenzie polled some scouts to do a re-do of the 1st round and Jankowski was considered a first rounder still.

So you're saying he wasn't off the board.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So you're saying he wasn't off the board.

There is no off the board concept.

From several accounts it sounds like the Flames weren't the only team who was willing to take him in the first round.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

A year after the draft The Hockey News or Bob Mackenzie polled some scouts to do a re-do of the 1st round and Jankowski was considered a first rounder still.

Link?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

A year after the draft The Hockey News or Bob Mackenzie polled some scouts to do a re-do of the 1st round and Jankowski was considered a first rounder still.

I remember that but read an article this year where they redrafted the 2012 and 2013 first rounds.

Janko was off the list and Klimchuck was bumped out I will search for the link. Pretty sure it was thn

Here is the link where Janko is still in the first but 4 spots lower

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...NHL-draft.html

[GoFlamesGo1989]

I remember reading that somewhere as well.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Link?

The Hockey News - March of 2014
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...NHL-draft.html

So how about the 2012 first round? How might that unfold in the eyes of a scouting panel if we were to re-convene today? After a half season of evaluation to consider,.

25. Mark Jankowski, C (taken 21st by Calgary)

[MrMastodonFarm]

Here is 2013
http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/ho...t-again-today/

23. Emile Poirier, LW (taken 22nd by Calgary)

They don't have Klimchuk in the 1st round anymore.

Just goes to show you how crazy stuff like this is and what FDW, myself and others are harping on. Poirier was the "off the board" hysteria when chosen and Klimchuk was the kid people kept saying we should have taken 22nd then waited for Poirier at that pick. Now in this poll Emile is 23rd and Klimchuk is out of the 1st round.

Each team has their own list, which is an amalgamation of several other smaller lists and many different opinions from their own scouts.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

There is no off the board concept.

From several accounts it sounds like the Flames weren't the only team who was willing to take him in the first round.

You don't understand what a concept is.

con·cept
ˈkänˌsept/
noun
noun: concept; plural noun: concepts

1. 1.
   an abstract idea; a general notion.
   "structuralism is a difficult concept"
   synonyms:idea, notion, conception, abstraction; Moretheory, hypothesis;
   belief, conviction, opinion;
   image, impression, picture
   "Freud's concept of the superego"
   
   
   
   
   
   • a plan or intention; a conception.
     "the center has kept firmly to its original concept"
     
     
   • an idea or invention to help sell or publicize a commodity.
     "a new concept in corporate hospitality"
     
     
   • Philosophy
     an idea or mental picture of a group or class of objects formed by combining all their aspects.
     
     
   • (of a car or other vehicle) produced as an experimental model to test the viability of new design features.
     modifier noun: concept
     
     
   
   
   
   

Origin

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Thanks. Guess I should've been more precise.

"Off the board" is a concept that is misunderstood, over-applied and misused. It has some fit in cases like Niinimaki IMO. Not so much for cases like Hickey, Wheeler, Morris, Jankowski, Poirier, etc.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Thanks. Guess I should've been more precise.

"Off the board" is a concept that is misunderstood, over-applied and misused. It has some fit in cases like Niinimaki IMO. Not so much for cases like Hickey, Wheeler, Morris, Jankowski, Poirier, etc.

We can all agree that stupid picks are stupid picks.

[PeteMoss]

Oh frig.... if we replace the term off the board with differing from the public concensus, can we end this debate?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Oh frig.... if we replace the term off the board with differing from the public concensus, can we end this debate?

There is no consensus except at the very, very top end in certain drafts (Crosby consensus #1, Ove/Malkin consensus 1/2, Stamkos consensus #1, etc.) Consensus in the draft is a myth. The "board" is a myth.

In Yakupov's year there was clearly no consensus about who the top player was. You give 10 different teams the #1 pick and you might've gotten 5 different #1 picks that year.

Clearly in this draft there is no consensus about the order the top 5-6 should go. You can find endless quotes from GM's and head scouts about it.

[PeteMoss]

Public was the key word.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Public was the key word.

Why help propagate a myth that confuses fans? Just because a couple scouting services seem to agree doesn't mean that the teams all agree. Pointless concept IMO.